[Cranker]

There are a few oddballs that are an exception to this rule (Threshold being one example) However, the general rule of thumb is that everything seen on-screen is canon unless stated otherwise.

I only brought it up to people that aren't aware. Frankly, if the JJ version isn't canon, then no star trek is canon. It's one of the basic theories of Quantum physics, the Many World's Interpretation. Throw in the idea of the butterfly effect and every person's personality could be changed. There were some (very very very hinted) signs that uhura and spock had had a relationship, or an attraction, in TOS. And there has been no other Star Trek movie that wasn't based on a series that had already made all the "hardcore trekkie canon" requirements. Let's face it, would you really wanna see a TOS reboot of Kirk exploring something for 2 1/2 hours? No one wanted to watch Archer explore things for 4 seasons. Although I posted the comic as a joke, I would really think it would be cool if Sulu or Kirk came back in time to save spock, although if you follow the Krenem philosophy Spock never would have tried to save Romulus et cetera, so it has to be alternate universe timeline.

According to Quantum physics, this means that the Kirk,Spock, ect would be different people. Mirror Universe cannonizes the theory of alternate universes. Thus the new cast is simply not the same people as the ones in TOS, just not as drastically changed as the Mirror Universe.

Ben I think you seem to have a good grasp of this and I am really into Quantum Physics, String Theory, Chaos Theory, and all the other things that Stephen Hawking pretends to understand, so I just wanted you to know I wasn't trying to contradict you, simply to add that little asterisk.

[Mr Dobilina]

This is starting to feel like a marvel debate. There are so many extra timelines/alternate realities in the Marvel Comic Universe but they are all considered canon. The same should hold here, it's Trek, and Trek Trek where the ships fly at the speed of plot (which is faster in film than in a series!).

But it all boils down to this, enjoy it/don't enjoy it. Just realise someone tried to do something big, new and bold for you. Respect the work that's gone into it. And if you really don't like it, that's fine!

[starsrift]

I consider JJ Trek to be as canon as the Star Wars Christmas Special.

[Midnight ADR]

This is starting to feel like a marvel debate. There are so many extra timelines/alternate realities in the Marvel Comic Universe but they are all considered canon. The same should hold here, it's Trek, and Trek Trek where the ships fly at the speed of plot (which is faster in film than in a series!).

But it all boils down to this, enjoy it/don't enjoy it. Just realise someone tried to do something big, new and bold for you. Respect the work that's gone into it. And if you really don't like it, that's fine!

^ This.

I am not a fan of JJ's Trek personally so I consider it an alternative universe and thus I don't watch it.

I don't berate anyone who does enjoy the reboot though. To each their own.

[Cranker]

I think that JJ may not have done right by "hardcore trekkies" but if you watch the commentary on Nemesis, the director kept calling Levar Burton Laverne and he thought he was an alien because of his eyes. If you take just that movie, as it is, it's pretty much just an action flick with a bad director. At least JJ had the sense to bring in the old cast and stuff, and at least he came out and said he wasn't a trekkie, but they hired him anyway. Baird didn't even go watch any of the old movies or the TV show, which is why he hasn't directed a movie since. Also he cut out the scene of Worf talking about being an ambassador and Crusher talking about her new job at starfleet medical.

[SCOOP]

I voted no. Everytime I watch JJ's I only think about hollywood businessmen desperately trying to sell their franchise to new audiences .. Is it really so hard to develop a new tv series where an enterprise explores the gamma quadrant? Why can't we have something thoughtful like TNG nowadays?

[Zekkie]

I think you guys are confusing "canon" with "something I like." For something to be "canon" in a franchise like Star Trek (or any other franchise) is for it to be genuine content recognized by the owners of the IP (or whatever authority decides what is and what isn't canon). (https://www.google.com/search?q=define+canon)

JJ Trek is canon. It's a statement of fact, not opinion. Just like VOY 2x15 "Threshold" is canon, but we tend to just pretend it never happened.

However, it's an alternate universe. From any perspective within the prime universe, all that happened is that Hobus exploded, Romulus was destroyed, and Spock disappeared into a black hole. If you like the prime universe, and dislike the alternate universe, just ignore it. It doesn't affect the prime universe and no characters in the prime universe are even aware of any of the events in JJ Trek. (You could go as far as to define "prime universe canon" as a subset of Star Trek canon, and exclude most of the events in JJ Trek, but that doesn't change anything)




Also, the reason we can't get anything thoughtful like TNG nowadays is because people in general won't watch it. Have you seen television and movies lately? It's all meaningless drivel that's just meant to get viewers. It's like long-form youtube.

[Sysil]

I think you guys are confusing "canon" with "something I like." For something to be "canon" in a franchise like Star Trek (or any other franchise) is for it to be genuine content recognized by the owners of the IP (or whatever authority decides what is and what isn't canon). (https://www.google.com/search?q=define+canon)

I guess you're right. I guess the poll's question is a bit useless with that definition since our opinions don't come into play.

Also, the reason we can't get anything thoughtful like TNG nowadays is because people in general won't watch it. Have you seen television and movies lately? It's all meaningless drivel that's just meant to get viewers. It's like long-form youtube.

I would say you're 95% right. There are a few shows I find are interesting enough to keep watching them.

[Bond]

There's another issue as well. Bias.

NU Trek, while having a rough start clears the slate of stagnation. There are alot of ignorant Trek fans who cannot see past Voyager and even the Dominion War. Even in STO where everything is now DS9 and Voyager-centric.

These "fans", if they had gotten their way would have killed the franchise. The proof is in the pudding in STO itself with the new content which I'm not excited for.

And if I can continue to be frank, even this place. I'm not trying to insult anyone but one of Trek's purposes was about progression, and sadly the remaining handful of Star Trek sites, including this one... seem to cannot move past the 2370's/2380's.

Granted, Nu Trek hasn't progressed in the way I'd hoped, but to call it an alternate reality is absurd.There are no two realities, just one and Spock altered things greatly. That's the way things stand now. I know how unfortunate it must feel but Im glad for any kind of change as long as it moves on from Voyager which to me, was a horrible show.

As for me, I'm intending to keep my character 25th century current. If it means I cannot be a member here I can accept that.

But remember Spock's words people: "Time abhors a vacuum."

[Kains]

Wow. Ok. I'm pretty notorious as being pro-JJ and pro-STO Trek, but I'll admit, I blanched a bit at the heavy handed casting of die hard fans of specific generations. Heck I wrote an article a while back about how Trek is in the eye of any particular fan.

I can find some of the resistance to progress frustrating, but I can respect the dedication (Even if I don't entirely understand it sometimes).

UFP has a home for everyone; As long as we all enjoy the sandbox that is Trek, we can all get along fine.

[Bond]

Indeed.

[JByb04]

My issue with JJ Trek isn't so much the story.

I can't resolve in my brain that the Enterprise portrayed in these films is nothing more than a bloated Apple Store. That appears more advanced than the Enterprise D which won't be launched for another 106 years. I know that special effects has grown by leaps and bounds since the mid 60's but that is a major plothole in itself. Toss that on top of Kirk being given command of the Federation Flagship without even graduating the academy. I can suspend disbelief but not that much.

But I'm not stuck in the 24th century. I embrace STO as a continuation of the prime universe timeline until a new series or movie advances it. Hopefully that is sooner than later.

[Snorp09]

My issue with JJ Trek isn't so much the story.

I can't resolve in my brain that the Enterprise portrayed in these films is nothing more than a bloated Apple Store. That appears more advanced than the Enterprise D which won't be launched for another 106 years. I know that special effects has grown by leaps and bounds since the mid 60's but that is a major plothole in itself. Toss that on top of Kirk being given command of the Federation Flagship without even graduating the academy. I can suspend disbelief but not that much.

But I'm not stuck in the 24th century. I embrace STO as a continuation of the prime universe timeline until a new series or movie advances it. Hopefully that is sooner than later.

I agree the "new" uss enterprise is way better then the Enterprise D (Not that I like it more then the Enterprise D). The enterprise D was the best ship in the fleet in TNG, but in the reboots the Enterprise D would be old and outdated!.

[Shiff]

Guys, you realize, according to JJ Trek continuity, that the arrival of the Borged up Narada basically threw the ST:TOS tech level well past that of the Enterprise-E? It's even mentioned somewhere in the movie. The scans from the ship that Kirk's father served on (and also Captain Pike) basically sent the SCE wild. So yes, the tech is crazy advanced for TOS. But there's a reason. It's called temporal interference from Nero. So when they make a JJ Trek Galaxy class, expect it and the new Picard to be impossibly awesome.

[Josh Broughm]

I consider the Countdown comics to be Canon & JJ Trek to be extended universe, as is STO.