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Problems with Time Travel

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Three of Seven, Wed 11 Jan, 2017 5:36 PM
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    #16
    Because you're talking about time travel. What difference does that matter what the context is. Didnt know this was star trek only conversation. See many others with different view points outside of ST. I used him as example of what happens when you mess with it, which created alernated timelines. I also disagree with you with different rules time travel is time travel. It's not like ST has everything down to science when it comes to time travel. Everything is theory; obviously because nothing can be proven yet.
    Well said.

    As per the OP, she did not specify that is was Star Trek only, She wrote "Problem with Time Travel". With that in mind we could talk about every show and movies that use time-travel. And the post, spoke, in general.

    In the end, Time Travel is fictional and to be honest, it is being used to much.
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    #17
    Because you're talking about time travel. What difference does that matter what the context is. Didnt know this was star trek only conversation. See many others with different view points outside of ST. I used him as example of what happens when you mess with it, which created alernated timelines. I also disagree with you with different rules time travel is time travel. It's not like ST has everything down to science when it comes to time travel. Everything is theory; obviously because nothing can be proven yet.
    I think 3 of 7 is talking about real time travel and how it ties into ST? Isn't that the topic? We could bring up Flash and Superman and everyone else, too, I guess. Just understanding real time travel is confusing enough, let alone bringing other fictional versions of the real thing haha
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    #18
    I think 3 of 7 is talking about real time travel and how it ties into ST? Isn't that the topic? We could bring up Flash and Superman and everyone else, too, I guess. Just understanding real time travel is confusing enough, let alone bringing other fictional versions of the real thing haha
    Real time travel. Again are theory. Star Trek is fiction. Most fiction (that I know) use what you call real time travel theories. When we talk about time travel there is so much that is involved with it. How it can be done has been different through many different fictions out there. The context is always the same no matter where it's coming from if it based on those theories.

    I have reread the OP I dont get it that it was Star Trek only topic. It's just the confusions with time travel. When someone ends with a statement like this, "Time travel is complicated, what problems come to your mind!" to me thats open ended. One I suggested and used example of is messing around with it. I suppose I could use a Star Trek example if that makes everyone happy?
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    #19
    Real time travel. Again are theory. Star Trek is fiction. Most fiction (that I know) use what you call real time travel theories. When we talk about time travel there is so much that is involved with it. How it can be done has been different through many different fictions out there. The context is always the same no matter where it's coming from if it based on those theories.

    I have reread the OP I dont get it that it was Star Trek only topic. It's just the confusions with time travel. When someone ends with a statement like this, "Time travel is complicated, what problems come to your mind!" to me thats open ended. One I suggested and used example of is messing around with it. I suppose I could use a Star Trek example if that makes everyone happy?
    Right, real time travel.

    Most of science is theory haha that doesn't mean anything. I think there might be confusion with what constitutes scientific theory. First off, a scientific law is the description of an observed phenomenon. Scientific theory explains why the phenomenon exists or what causes it. Second, a lot of people think that scientific theories turn into laws, with enough research, but, that isn't the case in science.

    "For a real, everyday example of time travel, consider the satellites of the Global Positioning System. Were it not for built-in calibrations, the GPS atomic clocks would gain 38 microseconds over terrestrial timepieces every day, throwing off their location accuracy by several miles. “Clocks on Earth tick a tiny bit slower than satellites out in space,” said Lloyd. The reason: time dilation, as described by Einstein’s two theories of relativity."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1429953.html

    "Quantum mechanics has opened up strange avenues as well. Experiments have shown that measuring a particle property at an initial and end stage can modify its middle value, but only if the last measurement takes place. Such clues toward a possible “backwards causality” continue to be investigated." Nobody undertands this
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1429953.html

    "Lloyd has conducted quantum mechanical experiments in the last few years that suggest timelines remain self-consistent. The tests served as “the moral equivalent of sending a photon a few billionths of a second backwards in time and having it try to kill its former self,” Lloyd said.

    "In Lloyd’s experiment, as photons got ever closer to interfering with themselves, the probability of the experiment succeeding grew ever lower. “Our theory has an automatic censorship of things which are completely inconsistent,” said Lloyd. “When you go back [in time], no matter how hard you try, you cannot change the thing you try to change.”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1429953.html

    As for discussing Flash, go ahead haha I just didn't figure someone was asking about other types of science fiction.
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    #20
    Right, real time travel.

    Most of science is theory haha that doesn't mean anything. I think there might be confusion with what constitutes scientific theory. First off, a scientific law is the description of an observed phenomenon. Scientific theory explains why the phenomenon exists or what causes it. Second, a lot of people think that scientific theories turn into laws, with enough research, but, that isn't the case in science.

    "For a real, everyday example of time travel, consider the satellites of the Global Positioning System. Were it not for built-in calibrations, the GPS atomic clocks would gain 38 microseconds over terrestrial timepieces every day, throwing off their location accuracy by several miles. “Clocks on Earth tick a tiny bit slower than satellites out in space,” said Lloyd. The reason: time dilation, as described by Einstein’s two theories of relativity."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1429953.html

    "Quantum mechanics has opened up strange avenues as well. Experiments have shown that measuring a particle property at an initial and end stage can modify its middle value, but only if the last measurement takes place. Such clues toward a possible “backwards causality” continue to be investigated." Nobody undertands this
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1429953.html

    "Lloyd has conducted quantum mechanical experiments in the last few years that suggest timelines remain self-consistent. The tests served as “the moral equivalent of sending a photon a few billionths of a second backwards in time and having it try to kill its former self,” Lloyd said.

    "In Lloyd’s experiment, as photons got ever closer to interfering with themselves, the probability of the experiment succeeding grew ever lower. “Our theory has an automatic censorship of things which are completely inconsistent,” said Lloyd. “When you go back [in time], no matter how hard you try, you cannot change the thing you try to change.”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1429953.html

    As for discussing Flash, go ahead haha I just didn't figure someone was asking about other types of science fiction.
    I'm really getting tired of this fighting back and forth. I'm sure the rest of the thread is as well. Way I was taught about science isn't how you described it. No, this isnt high school level education we're talking about. But to each their own. I dont even know how you can put real time travel with Star trek if this the parameter you're going to use. If thats the case no fiction what so ever should of been mention in any post. Then you still have the ended open question "Time travel is complicated, what problems come to your mind!" What I think you want is completely different convo then what originally intended. Honestly, I dont get where you thought OP was talking about real time travel. I dont know how many times I have reread it to try to see your viewpoint. I'm sorry.

    Anyways, I'm done trying to figure it out. Without anything about the flash, star trek, or whatever else fiction confusions of time travel to me is everything about it. Why go back, sure it be interesting to go and view certain events through time but small change I honestly believe would alter it. I dont see how it could not. Should we just accept our past and move on? Most times when I talk about this subject with friends or family they want to fix something they did or what someone did to them. I just reply that those experiences made you to who you are today.

    One note about theory and scientific method I even read some old text books no where does it describe science as you just had. I even have a couple wiki links I guess you look at:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

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    #21
    I'm really getting tired of this fighting back and forth. I'm sure the rest of the thread is as well. Way I was taught about science isn't how you described it. No, this isnt high school level education we're talking about. But to each their own. I dont even know how you can put real time travel with Star trek if this the parameter you're going to use. If thats the case no fiction what so ever should of been mention in any post. Then you still have the ended open question "Time travel is complicated, what problems come to your mind!" What I think you want is completely different convo then what originally intended. Honestly, I dont get where you thought OP was talking about real time travel. I dont know how many times I have reread it to try to see your viewpoint. I'm sorry.

    Anyways, I'm done trying to figure it out. Without anything about the flash, star trek, or whatever else fiction confusions of time travel to me is everything about it. Why go back, sure it be interesting to go and view certain events through time but small change I honestly believe would alter it. I dont see how it could not. Should we just accept our past and move on? Most times when I talk about this subject with friends or family they want to fix something they did or what someone did to them. I just reply that those experiences made you to who you are today.

    One note about theory and scientific method I even read some old text books no where does it describe science as you just had. I even have a couple wiki links I guess you look at:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

    TEST TEST TEST ERROR TEST TEST SUCCESS!
    I didn't think we're fighting, just talking about time, and the difference between law and theory, as defined by everyone in the science community.

    I don't know what you were taught in school. I've never heard it taught the way you're saying. Between my own studies, and studying the sciences in college, law and theory is exactly as I described them haha it's just how science is done, not really debatable; it's not in question anywhere that I've ever known.

    The only time I've seen people confuse the meanings of scientific law and theory is when people are ignorant of how science works. It's not bad, you could probably ask anyone randomly and they wouldn't know the correct meanings, either haha.

    You don't have to see my viewpoint on my interpretation of his question haha it's not a big deal.

    What you tell your friends could also be applied to our world history. Everything that's happened made us who we are as citizens and as a species. We could go back and save Lincoln, what would the cost be? What if Lincoln surviving would have slowed the result of the Civil War? We could go back and fix our nation's and world's mistakes, it would change everything in unforeseen ways.

    Nowhere in the old text books? The meanings of law and theory go back hundreds of years, I'm sure they're there somewhere.

    They aren't even in the very links you provided haha thought that was funny.

    "A common misconception is that scientific theories are rudimentary ideas that will eventually graduate into scientific laws when enough data and evidence have been accumulated. A theory does not change into a scientific law with the accumulation of new or better evidence. A theory will always remain a theory; a law will always remain a law."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scient...ories_and_laws

    As for your second site, it focuses more on method, rather than theory, so it's barely mentioned, though it is alluded to.

    "...no theory can ever be considered final, since new problematic evidence might be discovered. If such evidence is found, a new theory may be proposed, or (more commonly) it is found that modifications to the previous theory are sufficient to explain the new evidence."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

    In other words, theories don't get promoted to laws.

    Simply put, a scientific law is a statement based on repeated experimental observations. Scientific theories are the reasoning behind those laws. One does not eventually become the other. This is how it has always been in every credible science text that teaches how law and theory work together.
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