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The Orville

Started By:
aceman67, Tue 16 May, 2017 6:47 AM
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    #121
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    #122
    Oh boy, I just caught up with the latest episodes (last three ones), and are they so good and complete with how they handle their humour v. story plot. I'm honestly looking forward to more Orville now hands down.
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    #123
    I'm probably misunderstanding you, do you think the Catholic Church is on the road to secularism the way the phasing planet was? The Catholic Church had to change their beliefs but I wouldn't say they're going to lose their faith. The Catholic Church had Galileo under house arrest for "vehemently suspect of heresy" for the rest of his life. Martin Luther wanted the Catholic Church to review its teachings of his Ninety-five Theses, not attempting to drift toward secularism. Leonardo da Vinci has a hand in drifting the Catholic Church to secularism, too? I don't see them as having a hand in the Church's possible drift toward secularism at all.



    Personally I think that there will be a moment in the future at which we find ourselves realizing there are no more religious people left. It's gonna be a long while from now but I think it is inevitable.

    At the very least religion as we know it will vanish. The concept of a sentient entity that created the Universe with a purpose and who is watching us and will judge us after we die is untenable as it is but will become less and less defensible as we gain more knowledge about the universe.



    I mean; at this moment we can, with a confidence near certainty, explain the universe around us from now back until one billionth of a second after what we call the big bang without the need for any deity whatsoever. Even for the parts we do not yet know to explain we have evidence. (dark energy and dark matter, which we know nothing about, except that they exist)


    Surely we can all agree that the Earth is round, that all the creation stories in the abrahamic religions are at the best very ancient myths and that the historical authenticity (which is partial at best) begins in the 13th century before the common era ends at the very latest with the start of the new testament, 0CE.


    I am not knowledgable enough in the Hindu, Buddhist or the chinese religions to specifically dipute their scriptures but they're included in the knowledge that they too are mostly reliant on the location and parent's conviction for the determination of their followers faith in them. Born in India, and/or your parents are Hindu? Well, chances are you're going to be Hindu yourself. Same goes for Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, [fill in your favorite religion].


    That would mean that (I take one of the more rediculous and least believable religions as an example and in no way imply that religion has any credibility) if the one true religion would be (ther can be only one) the latter day saints and derivatives (there's more than one flavour, like christianity and islam and so on] that would mean that most of the world's population would go to hell after they die simply because they were born in a location where the LSD and derivatives were not the dominant religion. Europe, the middle east, the far east, south america except for brasil. That would be so wrong that were I to be given proof that such a god did exist I'd join the opposition, and start a rebellion.


    There are reasons why there is such a resistance against giving up religion. First and foremost the arrogance of man. People simply cannot believe that their existence will end. That their being, their thoughts and experiences, will vanish with their death except for the physical records they leave behind. Another reason is that people simply don't want to admit to themselves that they've wasted at least a lot of their time on something that isn't true. This reason is more powerful the more active and zealous the believer has been, especially if they have converted others to their faith. They cannot or will not consider the possibility they might have had a great impact on peoples lives in name of something that isn't true.


    But the most important element in the prolonged existence of religion is the fact that the thought processes of religious people and those of atheists are different from the very foundation on up. Theists and ex-theists cannot comprehend the complete absence of religious thoughts whatsoever in the thought processes of a true atheist. The more “laws” a faith has, the less a follower of that faith will be able to comprehend that complete absense of thought related to religion. When I think there is never a moment in which I think “if I do this then I am breaking the rules of this or that religion” or “that would piss off Allah”.


    (that last bit is a bit hard to verbalize in english I hope it's comprehensible)


    To make a long story…. Well, less long than it could've been…


    Slowly but surely the new generations, with the improvement of education and the trickling down of education into the least educated parts of the human population, will become more and more secular. At one point there shall be a generation in every part of the globe, whose parents will not force their own religion upon them and give them the freedom to make a decision about it when they're ready to do so. Their lives will be the first to live in “true” freedom of religion (there is no place with freedom of religion on Earth today) and will mark the beginning of a secular society like the one in the Orville seemed to have become.


    With Isaac, I don't see how they could get there "naturally" with an artificial lifeform telling them the truth about Kelly. It'd be one thing if the people started to realize it and just ignored Isaac, but I'm figuring that's not what happened. Surely he put them on the road to secularism haha he's a talking robot for crying out loud haha



    It always happens naturally. Religious people cannot be converted to Atheism. It never happened, never happens, never will happen. In fact it is well known that most religious people will not accept that their religion is false even in the face of hard indisputable evidence. They shall believe their faith's doctrine above any proof. If I produce a signed confession written in his own blood from Muhammed himself stating that he used the power of faith to unify people across racial, tribal or national boundries in order to unify the Arab tribes under one law, one banner (just like it seemed to have done in the Levant for the semites, like it did for the Europeans during that time) and literally having Muhammed's written statements that he is not a prophet and that no god or allah exists they will reject that and deny that it is genuine or claim that the devil made them write or say it.


    So Isaac telling the truth about Kelly would make no difference at all.


    No the only thing that can help with convincing a religious person his faith is wrong is scientific knowledge and understanding. Only when they reali



    - - - Updated - - -
    That's EXACTLY how I felt originally haha but I wouldn't dare voice it. I think MacFarlane knows exactly what he wants it to be. It's obviously a Trek spoof and a sci-fi comedy, right? It's a humorous imitation of ST with classic features of the show being exaggerated for comic effect AND it has classic bits of comedy about day-to-day interactions, too. I think that's exactly what MacFarlane was aiming for being a ST fan and the creator of "The Family Guy."[/QUOTE]



    LOL I was typing a very detailed reply about the intentions of McFarlane in the beginning (before Orville) and what it turned into but I found that he himself has done that already for me. Big Grin


    http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/seth-ma...th-the-orville
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    #124
    Green... so much green...
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    #125
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    #126
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    #127
    1515022432 motivatora408af42a03854e05f0ef72d0c7eb152e8a424f7
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    #128
     –  Last edited by Allan Hood; Thu 04 Jan, 2018 12:03 AM.


    Personally I think that there will be a moment in the future at which we find ourselves realizing there are no more religious people left. It's gonna be a long while from now but I think it is inevitable.

    At the very least religion as we know it will vanish. The concept of a sentient entity that created the Universe with a purpose and who is watching us and will judge us after we die is untenable as it is but will become less and less defensible as we gain more knowledge about the universe.



    I mean; at this moment we can, with a confidence near certainty, explain the universe around us from now back until one billionth of a second after what we call the big bang without the need for any deity whatsoever. Even for the parts we do not yet know to explain we have evidence. (dark energy and dark matter, which we know nothing about, except that they exist)


    Surely we can all agree that the Earth is round, that all the creation stories in the abrahamic religions are at the best very ancient myths and that the historical authenticity (which is partial at best) begins in the 13th century before the common era ends at the very latest with the start of the new testament, 0CE.


    I am not knowledgable enough in the Hindu, Buddhist or the chinese religions to specifically dipute their scriptures but they're included in the knowledge that they too are mostly reliant on the location and parent's conviction for the determination of their followers faith in them. Born in India, and/or your parents are Hindu? Well, chances are you're going to be Hindu yourself. Same goes for Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, [fill in your favorite religion].


    That would mean that (I take one of the more rediculous and least believable religions as an example and in no way imply that religion has any credibility) if the one true religion would be (ther can be only one) the latter day saints and derivatives (there's more than one flavour, like christianity and islam and so on] that would mean that most of the world's population would go to hell after they die simply because they were born in a location where the LSD and derivatives were not the dominant religion. Europe, the middle east, the far east, south america except for brasil. That would be so wrong that were I to be given proof that such a god did exist I'd join the opposition, and start a rebellion.


    There are reasons why there is such a resistance against giving up religion. First and foremost the arrogance of man. People simply cannot believe that their existence will end. That their being, their thoughts and experiences, will vanish with their death except for the physical records they leave behind. Another reason is that people simply don't want to admit to themselves that they've wasted at least a lot of their time on something that isn't true. This reason is more powerful the more active and zealous the believer has been, especially if they have converted others to their faith. They cannot or will not consider the possibility they might have had a great impact on peoples lives in name of something that isn't true.


    But the most important element in the prolonged existence of religion is the fact that the thought processes of religious people and those of atheists are different from the very foundation on up. Theists and ex-theists cannot comprehend the complete absence of religious thoughts whatsoever in the thought processes of a true atheist. The more “laws” a faith has, the less a follower of that faith will be able to comprehend that complete absense of thought related to religion. When I think there is never a moment in which I think “if I do this then I am breaking the rules of this or that religion” or “that would piss off Allah”.


    (that last bit is a bit hard to verbalize in english I hope it's comprehensible)


    To make a long story…. Well, less long than it could've been…


    Slowly but surely the new generations, with the improvement of education and the trickling down of education into the least educated parts of the human population, will become more and more secular. At one point there shall be a generation in every part of the globe, whose parents will not force their own religion upon them and give them the freedom to make a decision about it when they're ready to do so. Their lives will be the first to live in “true” freedom of religion (there is no place with freedom of religion on Earth today) and will mark the beginning of a secular society like the one in the Orville seemed to have become.


    [/SIZE]


    It always happens naturally. Religious people cannot be converted to Atheism. It never happened, never happens, never will happen. In fact it is well known that most religious people will not accept that their religion is false even in the face of hard indisputable evidence. They shall believe their faith's doctrine above any proof. If I produce a signed confession written in his own blood from Muhammed himself stating that he used the power of faith to unify people across racial, tribal or national boundries in order to unify the Arab tribes under one law, one banner (just like it seemed to have done in the Levant for the semites, like it did for the Europeans during that time) and literally having Muhammed's written statements that he is not a prophet and that no god or allah exists they will reject that and deny that it is genuine or claim that the devil made them write or say it.


    So Isaac telling the truth about Kelly would make no difference at all.


    No the only thing that can help with convincing a religious person his faith is wrong is scientific knowledge and understanding. Only when they reali



    - - - Updated - - -
    That's EXACTLY how I felt originally haha but I wouldn't dare voice it. I think MacFarlane knows exactly what he wants it to be. It's obviously a Trek spoof and a sci-fi comedy, right? It's a humorous imitation of ST with classic features of the show being exaggerated for comic effect AND it has classic bits of comedy about day-to-day interactions, too. I think that's exactly what MacFarlane was aiming for being a ST fan and the creator of "The Family Guy."


    I wouldn’t say it’s a “confidence near certainty;” the Big Bang is an idea that we have, what we figure must have happened based on what we know so far of the nature of space. But, this is always changing and developing. We have a baseline, maybe, but we’ve only been scientifically understanding the possibility of a Big Bang for less than 100 years?

    If you mean the cosmic microwave background radiation, the theory predicted the existence of background radiation throughout the universe before it was discovered.

    With this in mind, I can’t help but wonder what caused it, though people argue that it has always existed. Now we have the problem of why there is anything at all, asked by philosophers such as Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, Martin Heidegger, and Ludwig Wittgenstein. If the universe always existed due to the nature that time always existed, what prompted everything? Naturally, if there’s nothing, shouldn’t nothing exist indefinitely?

    I get for an atheist to jump to the conclusion that there’s a Creator is quite a leap, but I wouldn’t say we have a “confidence near certainty.”

    Yes, we can agree that the Earth is round haha.

    For Believers who believe in a supernatural power, the creation stories in the Abrahamic religions are either literal or aiming to point to a deeper understanding through their stories. The creation story can be symbolism of some ancient kind isn’t interpreted anymore. The teachings aren’t meant to be taken as science, since science is based on testable explanations and predictions.

    We’re thinking Revelation was written sometime around 100 CE.

    With everything we know about multiple dimensions, that’d be considered arrogance to believe our soul/spirit doesn’t exist past our body? Part of me sees the arrogance of man going both ways, our arrogance can also block us to new possibilities, “if man was meant to fly, we’d have wings.” I can see this being applied spiritually, too.

    The last bit that is hard to verbalize in English, blew my mind haha I couldn’t understand it. You’re saying it’s hard to believe a spirit being as having rules to follow?

    As for Issac, he was an artificial lifeform from another planet standing as a witness against their understanding, which seems anything but natural haha and hard to refute. I can see that it happened naturally on Earth. How would it be natural with Issac standing there? How could that not have an influence?
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    #129
    So watched through most of the Orville eps, and its just better than Discovery, hands down. I'm sorry but Discovery has shot itself with its seriously flawed backstory and it just doesn't have the chemistry as The Orville does. Also Discovery just isn't Star Trek, period. Its too far up its own backside with the pretentiousness of its writers and cast, as well as the general vibe of the show, they should have done it post Nemesis with a back drop of intrigue and subterfuge that would have helped Discovery's "Darker" tone. Just my opinion.
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    #130
    I like Orville better than Discovery too, mainly because it's much lighter. There's a lot of dark media nowadays, such as Man of Steel, that doesn't need to be so dark but it's thrown in for the hell of it. It's refreshing to get an upbeat, hopeful series such as The Orville makes you think back to the good days where episodes of Star Trek were mostly fun. I've missed that.
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    #131
    I recently started watching The Orville and have been enjoying it so far. I think the hardest part about the show would be avoiding the Star Trek copyright, as fan shows have come under attack before, so I'm glad they managed to make it work.
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    #132


    It always happens naturally. Religious people cannot be converted to Atheism. It never happened, never happens, never will happen. In fact it is well known that most religious people will not accept that their religion is false even in the face of hard indisputable evidence. They shall believe their faith's doctrine above any proof. If I produce a signed confession written in his own blood from Muhammed himself stating that he used the power of faith to unify people across racial, tribal or national boundries in order to unify the Arab tribes under one law, one banner (just like it seemed to have done in the Levant for the semites, like it did for the Europeans during that time) and literally having Muhammed's written statements that he is not a prophet and that no god or allah exists they will reject that and deny that it is genuine or claim that the devil made them write or say it.
    And then there's
    https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim
    https://www.reddit.com/r/exchristian/
    https://www.reddit.com/r/excatholic/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/
    https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/c...what_made_you/
    https://www.reddit.com/r/exatheist/
    nyx425
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    #133
    I recently started watching The Orville and have been enjoying it so far. I think the hardest part about the show would be avoiding the Star Trek copyright, as fan shows have come under attack before, so I'm glad they managed to make it work.
    That's not hard, avoiding Trek copyright just means not using the Trek name, characters, locations etc. A sci-fi show set on a ship with a crew, inspired by Trek is completely different and there's nothing they can do about that because they don't own that sci-fi setting. All the fan shows that have come under attack have done so because they use Trek characters or are set in the Trek universe.

    It's why Tim Russ's Star Trek Renegades project had to be renamed to just Renegades and have a few costume changes so that it was no longer Trek, however apart from that it remained exactly the same.

    Orville won't even have a problem like that when it comes to Trek copyright. It's clearly inspired by Trek and that's fine for the most part.
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    #134
    That's not hard, avoiding Trek copyright just means not using the Trek name, characters, locations etc. A sci-fi show set on a ship with a crew, inspired by Trek is completely different and there's nothing they can do about that because they don't own that sci-fi setting. All the fan shows that have come under attack have done so because they use Trek characters or are set in the Trek universe.

    It's why Tim Russ's Star Trek Renegades project had to be renamed to just Renegades and have a few costume changes so that it was no longer Trek, however apart from that it remained exactly the same.

    Orville won't even have a problem like that when it comes to Trek copyright. It's clearly inspired by Trek and that's fine for the most part.
    Took the words out of my mouth.
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