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Force of Nature

Started By:
Allan Hood, Tue 13 Jun, 2017 7:36 PM
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    #1
     –  Last edited by Allan Hood; Tue 13 Jun, 2017 7:39 PM.
    Data talks Picard and Riker into using a warp pulse so they coast without using their warp engines for two minutes, eight seconds.

    If the ship is moving through space, instead of space moving around them, wouldn't the ship be affected by time dilation under Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity?
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    #2
     –  Last edited by Silynn; Tue 13 Jun, 2017 9:32 PM.
    An interesting theory to ponder upon.

    Does the warp technology in Star Trek utilizes warp bubbles? Basically a field encapsulating the starship and propelling it at FTL speeds?

    If so, would the pulse maintain it's warp field integrity thus protecting them from any bad side-effects?


    Disclaimer: I'm by no means a Warp Theorist or Warp Engineer. Smile
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    #3
     –  Last edited by Allan Hood; Sat 24 Jun, 2017 1:29 AM.
    An interesting theory to ponder upon.

    Does the warp technology in Star Trek utilizes warp bubbles? Basically a field encapsulating the starship and propelling it at FTL speeds?

    If so, would the pulse maintain it's warp field integrity thus protecting them from any bad side-effects?


    Disclaimer: I'm by no means a Warp Theorist or Warp Engineer. Smile
    They don't call it a "warp bubble" in this case, but a warp field, also known as a subspace field.

    Right, it's basically a field encapsulating the starship, propelling it at FTL speeds. The field is a subspace displacement that warps space around the vessel, allowing it to "ride" on a distortion and travel faster than the speed of light.
    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Warp_field

    According to the Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual, the shape of the warp field produces the propulsive effect. (p.64) The forward lobe of the field is created with a frequency offset to create the field shape asymmetry required to drive the ship forward. (p.65)
    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Warp_field

    The pulse seems to be more like a burst, manipulating spacetime behind the ship to push it forward. In the episode, the warp field was disengaged. Their goal was to coast the ship forward without using the warp field at all.

    Based the previous texts, time dilation shouldn't occur as long as the starship is within a warp field BECAUSE the space immediately around the ship isn't affected by the field, only forward and behind. It's as if the ship is stationary. According to The Physics of Star Trek, by Lawrence M. Krauss, "...warp drive...is designed to avoid the problems of time dilation..."

    Imagine a surfboard on a wave with a toy car on top. The toy car is the ship, the board is the warp field and the wave is manipulated spacetime. If the integrity of the field is right, the car should simply ride on the board without any problems. Since the car isn't touch the water around it, spacetime isn't changing so regular time within the field isn't affected, either. The ship experiences no time dilation, since spacetime is what's moving and the ship isn't actually the one accelerating, relative to the space immediately around it, within the field.

    BUT, if there isn't a warp field and the starship is moving near the speed of light, shouldn't time dilation kick in?

    I love mixing science fiction with science fact. NASA really is working on this, too, but it's only calculations and theory, nothing practical, yet.
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    #4
    One thing that confuses me, if they leave this 'warp bubble', wouldn't that cause huge amounts of damage to the surrounding space and the objects occupying that space? Doesn't the warp core generate the warp field that protects them from normal space and the rules governing that space?

    Moving that fast would mean that you'd have to hit something, space dust or not, and hitting any matter of even relatively fair size could theoretically punch a hole in the ship.

    So they must have stayed within warped space, somehow.

    I think.
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    #5
     –  Last edited by Allan Hood; Sat 24 Jun, 2017 1:27 AM.
    One thing that confuses me, if they leave this 'warp bubble', wouldn't that cause huge amounts of damage to the surrounding space and the objects occupying that space? Doesn't the warp core generate the warp field that protects them from normal space and the rules governing that space?

    Moving that fast would mean that you'd have to hit something, space dust or not, and hitting any matter of even relatively fair size could theoretically punch a hole in the ship.

    So they must have stayed within warped space, somehow.

    I think.
    I get your confusion. The warp core generates the warp field, but the navigational deflector generates the deflector shield that protects them from normal space, including any debris. The warp field does change the rules governing the space immediately around the vessel, but only to propel the ship. The warp field doesn't protect against debris.

    There isn't a "warp bubble;" there's a warp field and a deflector shield. The warp field simply warps space around a vessel to propel it, riding a wave of warped spacetime, generated by the warp nacelles. The deflector shield is what's used to " to deflect microscopic particles and higher-powered deflector beams and/or tractor beams to deflect larger objects." (Star Trek: First Contact; VOY: "Alliances", "Shattered") It's generated by the navigational deflector on the main hull.
    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/N...onal_deflector

    Right, moving that fast would mean that if they hit something, even microscopic debris or space dust, would theoretically punch a microscopic hole in the ship and people, too. That's the whole point of the deflector shields, not the warp field.

    That doesn't mean they "stayed within warped space, somehow." The whole theme of the episode was that they couldn't use a warp field in this region of space; " warp fields are slowly damaging their region of space and that their homeworld (they are Hekarans, the inhabitants of Hekaras II) will one day be rendered uninhabitable if nothing is done to prevent the damage that they claim is being caused."
    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/F...ture_(episode)

    "Data suggests to Captain Picard that the Enterprise "coast" into the rift by initiating a brief but intense warp pulse from their current position where they'd be able to reach a high enough velocity to enter the rift...and leave the rift without using the warp engines inside of it... the warp drive will be engaged for just 6.3 seconds before disengaging."
    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/F...ture_(episode)
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    #6
     –  Last edited by Allan Hood; Sat 24 Jun, 2017 1:38 AM.
    Anyone help me with double-checking my calculations?

    Just so we can get a baseline on our variables, let's start with v<c...

    Normal time (t) in days:
    t=((587862537318.295/((v/c)*186282.3970512))/60/60/23.93446389)

    Starship Dilation in days:
    =(t)*(((1-(((v/c)^2)/(1^2)))^0.5))*365.25

    Time Dilation in days:
    =(t)/(((1-(((v/c)^2)/(1^2)))^0.5))*365.25

    .1ly = 587,862,537,318.295 miles
    c = 186,282.3970512 mi/sec
    v = .9c = 167,654.157346 mi/sec
    1 day = 23.93446389 hours
    1 yr = 365.25

    Normal time = 40.6944565 days
    Starship time = 17.7383024 days
    Time Dilation = 93.3594861 days

    I even have length contraction, mass effect and relativistic energy-momentum haha which is easy after getting time dilation down pat.
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