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General Order 1

Started By:
Allan Hood, Sat 30 Sep, 2017 3:39 PM
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    #1
    General Order 1: "No starship may interfere with the normal development of any alien life or society."

    Their goal is to repair the well and have the USS Shenzhou pick them up undetected, thereby avoiding a violation of Starfleet General Order 1. Captain Georgiou discharges a type 3 phaser into the well, shifting the water table and allowing water to reemerge from the well in a large geyser.
    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/T...ello_(episode)

    Doesn't that break GO1? Aren't they interfering with the normal development of an alien life/society? Am I misunderstanding?

    At this point, two natives are visible watching from atop a plateau, and a third is shown crawling along the ground with octopus-like tendrils, seemingly unseen by the two Humans.
    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/T...ello_(episode)

    I haven't see the episodes, yet. How pre-warp are the people? Will that get back to Starfleet?
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    #2
     –  Last edited by tunderforche; Sat 30 Sep, 2017 4:13 PM.
    I think the do it because the water table was affected by a mining accident in space so the are correcting that at least that is what i got from the episode.

    I do not think its a violation of general order 1.

    But maybe the will say it in a later episode.
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    #3
    Well in the 24th Century Starfleet let entire species parish, but in the 23rd Century Starfleet Captains have not played according to rules all the time best example Kirk.
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    #4
    This isn't the TNG Era Starfleet that accepts the extinction of entire planets to be the "normal" development of species.

    They got caught for sure, but they weren't intentionally trying to influence the species, they were just trying to keep them from dying.

    The point of the Prime Directive is to ostensibly prevent Starfleet from trying to steer societies down specific cultural lines.
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    #5
     –  Last edited by Petrarch; Sun 01 Oct, 2017 2:03 PM.
    They are definitely more sticklers for the Prime Directive in the 24th Century as they seem to apply it more broadly to cultures than the 23rd Century Federation did.

    In the TOS era, there are several fairly obvious violations that take place willingly. Kirk for example on at least 2 occasions justified this by arguing that the culture was not naturally developing and was effectively enslaved to a machine.

    It generally seems to be the case as well that if the Prime Directive was violated, Starfleet personnel can directly intervene in matters to attempt to rectify the damage done. Though Picard seemed to generally be more restrained than Kirk in this regard and made efforts to hide their actions from cultures, the episode "Who Watches the Watchers" shows him reaching the decision that the damage simply can't be fixed at that point and he reveals the existence of the Federation to a pre-warp species.
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    #6
    Did those insectoid creatures actually see the Shenzhou? I cannot recall exactly to be honest.

    So really all they saw was some people in rags looking at the water hole and then afterwards the waters returned so they could survive.I guess the SF officers were in disguise as some local inhabitants maybe? So possibly the locals only saw them as natives and come out of it all thinking the water coming back is a miracle.
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    #7
     –  Last edited by Hevach; Mon 02 Oct, 2017 1:24 AM.
    Spock and Kirk successfully argued that survival was preferable to extinction, and at least one of Picard's violations was because a planet was already thrown off the rails by an extraterrestrial event, and thus was no longer developing naturally. Both situations are applicable here.

    In the cases I'm recalling, Kirk chose to intervene to allow the planet to continue to develop, rather than cease developing. And Picard chose to intervene in an attempt to mitigate the damage already done.


    Counter arguments: Ceasing is sometimes the natural course of development, and isn't necessarily permanent, another race could arise on the planet if it's not colonized first. And the Mintakans would probably have forgotten their encounter with gods in a couple generations, and other settlements probably wouldn't even believe it to begin with (and the same can be said about the additional intervention to get them to forget the "gods" - belief will probably not spread past that one settlement and in a few generations will likely be dismissed anyway). That is, events that don't cause extinction will probably not have the long lasting impacts that people think they will, and mysteries will probably die given time.


    Which brings me to the point I wanted to make: The Prime Directive is vague and doesn't come with a list of subsections and qualifications. It's just not set up like a rule that's meant to be cut and dry gospel in all situations, it would be paralyzing in episodes where it's not even mentioned if it were applied in absolute. It should be applied as a stopping point, where a captain stops issuing unilateral decisions and options are discussed, with noninterference being the goal but not an enshrined absolute.

    Kirk, Picard, Sisko, and even Janeway violate the Prime Directive without consequence. At least in the first three cases (Janeway unilaterally declared violation or non-violation after silencing argument more than once), it wasn't a decision made lightly or on the captain's sole say-so. The situation was discussed, it was argued whether the Prime Directive was even in play, and what the costs of acting or not acting were, and if action were taken, where the line should be drawn. The captain made the final decision whether to violate the PD or not, but the process seems to be what counts: If you violate the PD, you better have thought it through and you better be able to make a good case for it.
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    #8
     –  Last edited by Allan Hood; Mon 02 Oct, 2017 2:27 AM.
    I think the do it because the water table was affected by a mining accident in space so the are correcting that at least that is what i got from the episode.

    I do not think its a violation of general order 1.

    But maybe the will say it in a later episode.
    Right, ok, so the well ran dry due to radiation from a meteor mining accident, so, Starfleet has to repair the damage, ok cool.

    Nobody saw them as aliens, right?
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    #9
    Avoiding detection is great for simplicity and better for safety, but the long term effect of a primitive species seeing another species briefly pass through its territory doing things the locals don't understand is probably negligible.