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[Spoiler] - S1E15 "Will You Take My Hand?" Discussion

Started By:
, Sat 10 Feb, 2018 2:06 PM
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View Poll Results: What did you think of the episode

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  • Liked it

    17 73.91%
  • No opinion

    2 8.70%
  • Disliked it

    4 17.39%
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    #31
    The episode was a bit of a letdown for me, not that it was bad, but rather because the war was ended way too easily and without any real issues. I just can't buy the way it went down. I also have a hard time swallowing that humans could roam around free on the Klingon home world in a time of war and not be looked upon with anything but distain or suspicion. I thought they might try to keep the emperor's façade as captain going for a couple more episodes, so that surprised me.

    Plot issues aside, I still did enjoy it. And I really love the show and characters. I can't wait for season 2.

    Now, if only I could get a crossfield out of the @#$@#%ing lockboxes. I broke my rule and got some keys and now I know why I have that rule, lol.
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    #32
     –  Last edited by Scarlett; Tue 13 Feb, 2018 3:29 PM.
    This episode was a hot mess: e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g felt rushed and nothing was consequential. I mean ... dagnabit.

    Although I enjoyed seeing the Enterprise appear (because I'm old school like that), if the show wanted to be it's own story, then it didn't need to actually appear at all. And yet, thank Khaless that Pike was noted in command.

    And frankly, I LOVED that the show ended using the TOS end credit theme. That was a more fitting end to the season in my opinion.

    Just make Seru the Captain of Discovery, good grief.
    EDIT - And Detmer needs her own story in this show.
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    #33
    NOOOOOOOOOOO WHY DO THEY HAVE TO CHANGE EVERYTHING!!!!!????

    Ultimately, I thought the episode was quite dull, the end of the Klingon war was a bit too easy and the speech Burnham gave didn’t really make sense from someone in her position. A bit anti-climactic overall, and why, why feel the need to change the ♥♥♥♥ING ENTERPRISE!?

    Hey ho, they were going to. And sadly Saru is not Captain of the Discovery. I am keen to see who is playing Pike, but meh...not particularly happy.

    Rant over. It has been an interesting ride to say the least, I will keep watching as it is Star Trek, I am just not happy with the direction of the show. Now that the Klingon War is over, they are going to need to tread carefully with the story as anything that comes now, needs to fit in with everything else. Will see.
    None of this is true.

    =D

    Particularly that it needs to fit in with everything else. If that was important, why are you crying about the male Orions not having paperwhite skin?

    But seriously, this will fit in with everything else about as much as TNG fit in with TOS or Enterprise fit in with anything.
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    #34
    Particularly that it needs to fit in with everything else.
    If you claim you play 10 years before Kirk and two years after the first pilot and also claim this is the prime timeline, yes it should.

    But seriously, this will fit in with everything else about as much as TNG fit in with TOS or Enterprise fit in with anything.
    Everytime they have showed us something from the TOS era in TNG to ENT they showed us TOS and nothing modified.
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    #35
    Agree with Bridger.

    But seriously, this will fit in with everything else about as much as TNG fit in with TOS or Enterprise fit in with anything.
    TNG fit in because it announced to be at a time AFTER TOS era. It wasn't a prequel. ENT unfortunately due to its "prequel" nature didn't last beyond 4th season - sadly just when it had picked up.
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    #36
    They could have done the same thing what was done with Battlestar Galactica and said it is a re-imagining of the original.
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    #37
    Honestly, I do not understand why they didn't make discovery post nemesis. Apart from the Enterprise fanservice, did the whole plot line really need to be set during pre TOS? All of this could've easily fit and probably would make more sense in as a post nemesis type show.
    I will never understand this obsession with "post-nemesis" Star Trek. I can't send the self religiousness of Starfleet in the TNG era. Humans are the good guys and we can do no wrong blah blah blah
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    #38
    I remember one of things that drew me in as a kid watching TNG was the magic of the future. I was too young to appreciate the deep human and philosophical stuff. So at it's core, seeing "pre-TNG" stuff (for me) takes a hit immediately when it comes to showing off the future-y stuff because I can always say "yeah, that's a cool hologram thingy... but in 100 years you can do way better, like they did in TNG."

    Probably why, later in life, DS9 became and maintains as my favorite Trek show. 1) I was old enough to "get it" and 2) appreciated the fact that they had to deal with their choices more instead flying off in a space ship.

    That said, I would love to have a Trek past Nemesis... but NOT if it's all this time travel crap, temporal cold war, etc. etc. Let's go further and bigger... extra-galactic! But not Star Gate: Universe "we are lost" meets Voyager. Give us new, vastly new beings and civs, and knock your hair back technology and ideas.
    I appreciate the theme of Discovery in that it seems to ask "at what point do we question, fall short on, or outright fail our most sacred values. And I feel that could hold water in any era and any trek show (and in many ways does... just maybe episodically in the older shows.)

    [It would never sell- but I would also take a mini-series based in the Mirror Uni... humans as the bad guys (which is why it wouldn't do well) to make us look harshly at we are capable of.]
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    #39
    I have nothing particularly against Discovery, I simply enjoy it for what it is, but I would agree that the franchise needs to look forwards rather than backwards.

    The problem with doing a prequel to anything, is that apart from having to tread carefully that you don't stomp over the already established events, is that no matter what situation you present, no matter how bad it looks for the good guys, you ultimately know that everything turns out ok.

    The Kelvin Timeline Star Trek gets around this issue by establishing a new timeline removed from the Prime one, but I think it's time for the Prime to move beyond the 24th Century. I'm aware Patrick Stewart has expressed interest in playing Picard again if the rumoured Tarantino Trek gets going, I'd have no issue with another TNG era movie, but if they do another series down the line, they should jump it forward to say 2480 and start things off fresh.
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    #40
    Because story wise it makes the most sense? Do you really think that Discovery fits in between Enterprise and TOS with its superior technology? Everything in Discovery is so much more technologically advanced that it is just absurd and is honestly an insult to anything that came before DIS. Mycelium network, advanced holo projection for both communication and holodecks, advanced spaceships; All of that would easily fit in a post Nemesis show, pre TOS, not so much.

    It is also terrible from a story aspect it not being post nemesis. There is absolutely no suspense in the story arc. We already know that the Federation is going to win, we know that Qo'noS is going to be destroyed, we know that the peace wont last and will start attacking each other again like a month after the events. Since the Pilot I knew I wouldn't have to worry about the Federation losing against the Klingons.

    I would've rated Discovery's plot even lower if it weren't for the interesting Mirror sub plot.
    From a visual standpoint most of the TOS visuals needs ignored due to when eh show was made. Hell, we have more advanced technology today than the TOS USS Enterprise had. People will just have to use some imagination and understand that TOS was the 60's.

    That being said, I view Discovery as a visual reboot and I'm okay with that. The time period to me allows for more drama, more interesting characters than the paradise of TNG+. I grew up with TNG and as a child I loved it. As an adult, it is kind of boring with DS9 being the exception. DS9 explored occupations, terrorism, religion, war. Heck, Sisko was the first Captain to have a family.

    If you read the first Discovery novel it kind of explains the hologram communication and why it fades from being used.
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    #41
     –  Last edited by oliverbloke; Sat 11 May, 2019 3:37 PM.
    The only problem I have with Discovery (the visual stuff I can mostly accept) is the weird moral decisions of Starfleet. However much mental gymnastics I do I just can't get past the fact that the plan was to, as Burnham says, commit genocide by blowing up a planet. I get they were up against the wall and everything but it just feels awful to me, and a moral hurdle which I can't get over when it comes to the series.

    We know Cornwall and Sarek signed off on the plan but how many people actually knew? Maybe if it wasn't a big decision by several people I could stomach it better but somehow I don't think so.

    I don't want to wave the "Roddenberry wouldn't approve of this" card because it's always in the air whenever I look on the internet but the decision there when looking at his vision is questionable. I get the point is to show Burnham getting onboard with Starfleet values but I wonder whether those values have actually been sacrificed for a personal character arc.