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[Discussion] - USS Lakota Captain Question

Started By:
Asteropax, Wed 15 Aug, 2018 2:26 AM
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View Poll Results: What will Erika Benteen's role be in the Ares Roleplay?

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  • Is Erika Benteen the Captain of the Lakota?

    4 57.14%
  • Is Erika Benteen an Officer aboard the Lakota?

    0 0%
  • Is Erika Benteen no longer a member of Starfleet?

    3 42.86%
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    • Scarlett
    #31
    Considering Startrek.com is run by CBS this is information from the license owner.

    Why was the blood test made by a command officer and not by one of the many security officers in the room.
    It would seem that way. However, I'm not sure who writes those articles for the CBS site and where they get their info from. Did they just hire some Trekkies to write articles after reviewing the episodes? Is that the writers interpretation, or info from behind the scenes? The good thing about Memory Alpha is that it will tell you that in a manner that suggests they researched it. And if the information isn't available, they don't put it forth.

    Good question: The two answers that come to mind are 1) She was intentionally framing him, so they didn't want to leave it to chance that a security officer would have discovered the syringe was a fake, or catalogued it as evidence officially, or 2) They wanted the four security guys to do security, and stop Changeling Sisko if something jumped off, which makes sense.

    Here's another question....why was Leyton's trying to stop the Defiant from coming to Earth? He didn't know about Lt. Arriegas arrest, apparently, because after he found out, he ordered it destroyed. But why stop it in the first place? He could have told them that Sisko was a changeling and their ship was being quarantined when they arrived.
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    #32
    "Benteen and her crew were led to believe the ship was manned by Shapeshifters..." I don't think it's accurate. Benteen knew cause she administered the test and for Sisko to change her mind about attacking the Defiant, she had to know he was human or she wouldn't have believed him.
    Wellllllll, maybe not. She could have used a little quick deductive reasoning. Last she saw, Sisko was in a cell. Now he's standing behind Leyton. Admittedly, with a phaser (if she even saw it). Sisko says his piece, then Leyton says, "Captain Benteen understands her duty," or something to that effect. Not, "Don't believe this changeling, blow up the ship!" Or, "Heeeeelllllp! Call Starfleet Security!" Also, the Defiant is trying to destroy her weapons, not destroy the ship itself. It has quantum torpedoes, and hasn't used them. You'd think Changelings would. The mission would be to get to Earth at all costs. So that could have made her change her mind and say, "Ok, let's escort her in and settle this without further loss of life."

    That's the thing about this episode, it's written/shot perfectly to go either way. It's hilarious that we just stumbled into this debate. I can't think of another situation like it in Trek.
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    #33
    "Benteen and her crew were led to believe the ship was manned by Shapeshifters..." I don't think it's accurate. Benteen knew cause she administered the test and for Sisko to change her mind about attacking the Defiant, she had to know he was human or she wouldn't have believed him. The crew, on the the other hand, had no idea and were following orders that they were changelings.
    Watch the episode again Layton says Benteen's crew was told the Defiant is full of shapeshifters.
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    • Scarlett
    #34
    Wellllllll, maybe not. She could have used a little quick deductive reasoning. Last she saw, Sisko was in a cell. Now he's standing behind Leyton. Admittedly, with a phaser (if she even saw it). Sisko says his piece, then Leyton says, "Captain Benteen understands her duty," or something to that effect. Not, "Don't believe this changeling, blow up the ship!" Or, "Heeeeelllllp! Call Starfleet Security!" Also, the Defiant is trying to destroy her weapons, not destroy the ship itself. It has quantum torpedoes, and hasn't used them. You'd think Changelings would. The mission would be to get to Earth at all costs. So that could have made her change her mind and say, "Ok, let's escort her in and settle this without further loss of life."

    That's the thing about this episode, it's written/shot perfectly to go either way. It's hilarious that we just stumbled into this debate. I can't think of another situation like it in Trek.
    haha I know, it's crazy, with everyone's Trek knowledge, we can't come to a common understanding on this.

    I think she was in on it from the beginning also because she said to Sisko something like, "I wish I could have gotten to know you before all this" or something like that.

    If she really thought Sisko was a changeling and she saw Sisko in the background, I doubt she would have remained calm and cool. She would have said something like, "Alert Starfleet Security" or something that he escaped. For her not to be overly concerned it seems more likely she knew he was innocent and felt like she was in the wrong from the beginning.

    Though everything you're saying is possible, I don't think it's likely to be written that way by the writers. But, who knows, we can use the same evidence for both our positions and argue our own interpretations easy haha
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    #35
    Watch the episode again Layton says Benteen's crew was told the Defiant is full of shapeshifters.
    Right, that's my point. I've watched it twice straight through and four times for reference haha.

    Right, Layton says Benteen's CREW was told the Defiant is full of shapeshifters, that doesn't mean it's true and it doesn't mean that Benteen didn't know the truth. Benteen would have been the one to deliver that message, whether she knew the truth or not. The CREW, on the the other hand, had no idea and were following orders that they were changelings.

    It's hard to know because canon isn't specific and it's left to interpretation. I seems that if she really believed the ship was full of changelings, especially Sisko, she wouldn't hesitate and would have blown them out of the water, so to speak.

    The fact she listened to Sisko and said earlier that she wished she served with him, makes me think that she really respected him and didn't believe he was a changeling, or the crew.
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    #36
    Right, Layton says Benteen's CREW was told the Defiant is full of shapeshifters, that doesn't mean it's true and it doesn't mean that Benteen didn't know the truth. Benteen would have been the one to deliver that message, whether she knew the truth or not. The CREW, on the the other hand, had no idea and were following orders that they were changelings.
    Which is not the point of the discussion, I think. The crew is following their Captain, who is following Layton's orders. We don't know what she knows, only what we see on the screen.
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    • Allan Hood
    #37
    haha I know, it's crazy, with everyone's Trek knowledge, we can't come to a common understanding on this.

    I think she was in on it from the beginning also because she said to Sisko something like, "I wish I could have gotten to know you before all this" or something like that.

    If she really thought Sisko was a changeling and she saw Sisko in the background, I doubt she would have remained calm and cool. She would have said something like, "Alert Starfleet Security" or something that he escaped. For her not to be overly concerned it seems more likely she knew he was innocent and felt like she was in the wrong from the beginning.

    Though everything you're saying is possible, I don't think it's likely to be written that way by the writers. But, who knows, we can use the same evidence for both our positions and argue our own interpretations easy haha
    Watching the episode, I agree - I think she was in on it from the beginning. I think that is what is hinted at...I won't say strongly, but significantly. The way things are laid out appear to be specifically designed to make you think that. For example, Benteen is saying, "Oh, I wish we would have worked together," and then she's testing him in the very next scene.

    But the episode is also structured in a way that, like you said, the complete opposite is not only possible, but someone thinking that can use some of the same evidence to say Benteen knew nothing, because none of it is established definitively onscreen in canon.

    So at this point, everything is pretty much laid out on both sides. It's just a matter of what everyone wants to do - use Benteen or not. I think either way works in the same way - that is, either Benteen is trying to redeem her name, or a Benteenless ship is trying to clear it's name, because for perhaps an hour of it's history, it had the misfortune to become an unknowingly part of the conspiracy and fire on another Federation ship, which is rare. So even though it's unfair, if someone mentions the Lakota, people in Starfleet probably think, "Oh yeah, thats Benteen's ship! First vessel to fire on another Federation vessel in ____ years!" Even though Benteen was captain for like a half a day. *LOL*

    So if we go with Benteen or not, Benteen's reputation is a footnote in the story.
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    #38
     –  Last edited by Allan Hood; Mon 20 Aug, 2018 4:23 AM.
    Which is not the point of the discussion, I think. The crew is following their Captain, who is following Layton's orders. We don't know what she knows, only what we see on the screen.
    Right, it's just bonus info haha I'm addressing how StarTrek.com says that "Benteen and her crew were led to believe the ship was manned by Shapeshifters..." I don't think it's accurate...cause everything I put in the previous post haha storywise, that won't even be addressed anyway.

    So even though it's unfair, if someone mentions the Lakota, people in Starfleet probably think, "Oh yeah, thats Benteen's ship! First vessel to fire on another Federation vessel in ____ years!" Even though Benteen was captain for like a half a day. *LOL*

    So if we go with Benteen or not, Benteen's reputation is a footnote in the story.
    That's a far cry from "Now, your father was captain of a Starship for 12 minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's and yours" hahaha
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    #39
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    #40


    That's a far cry from "Now, your father was captain of a Starship for 12 minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's and yours" hahaha
    LOL!

    Starfleet Admiral: "Now, the previous captain was captain of the Lakota for 11 hours and 29 minutes. She took two lives, with 24 additional casualties, while committing treason against the Federation. I dare you to do better.

    New Captain: "Uh....ok. I think I can do that."
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    #41
    LOL!

    Starfleet Admiral: "Now, the previous captain was captain of the Lakota for 11 hours and 29 minutes. She took two lives, with 24 additional casualties, while committing treason against the Federation. I dare you to do better.

    New Captain: "Uh....ok. I think I can do that."
    hahaha that's hilarious
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    #42
    Ok folks, this has been a wonderful, engaging discussion but I think we've delved into this as far as we can go without starting to repeat our arguments for and against. It basically boils down to what you want to believe as even that StarTrek.com article on Benteen seems a little haphazardly written so as to be ambiguous about her fate. It wouldn't have taken a creative genius at CBS to have added two lines like, "After the incident, Erika Benteen was court martialled and discharged from the service" or "After a court martial enquiry, Erika Benteen was reduced in rank to Commander and assigned to the USS Somethingorother". Personally, as much as I'd like to see Benteen at the helm of the Lakota, for the sake of the Ares storyline, I suggest that we have a different NPC captain to interact with. Problem solved with no baggage.
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    #43
    Now that we've had a few weeks to discuss this, I feel we can conclude the question of who the Captain of the Lakota is and what happened to Benteen following the events of DS9: Paradise Lost.

    Because of the hefty charges Benteen faced, she is no longer in Starfleet and would likely be serving a sentence in a penal colony. These charges, including 2 homicides and treason, would mean that she would not be able to reclaim her uniform following her incarceration. Many other officers who were also involved in the conspiracy would also face consequences, regardless of whether or not Admiral Leyton took full responsibility for what transpired or not.

    Although we are not going to have Benteen aboard, I would still like us to have a connection between the conspiracy and the current crew of the USS Lakota for story reasons. There will be officers aboard the Ares facing possible criminal charges during this chapter and I would like someone with some level of experience in the matter around to lend support. The current Captain of the USS Lakota will be someone who was an officer aboard the ship at the time of the conspiracy.

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