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[Discussion] - USS Lakota Captain Question

Started By:
Asteropax, Wed 15 Aug, 2018 1:26 AM
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View Poll Results: What will Erika Benteen's role be in the Ares Roleplay?

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  • Is Erika Benteen the Captain of the Lakota?

    4 57.14%
  • Is Erika Benteen an Officer aboard the Lakota?

    0 0%
  • Is Erika Benteen no longer a member of Starfleet?

    3 42.86%
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    #1
    There's a very interesting discussion going on right now about the DS9 character Erika Benteen, the Captain of the USS Lakota, seen in the Season 4 episodes Homefront and Paradise Lost. We're trying to decide her fate following the events of those episodes since the USS Lakota is set to appear soon during the current chapter of the Ares Roleplay.

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    #2
     –  Last edited by Allan Hood; Wed 15 Aug, 2018 6:01 AM.
    With my vote I want to explain haha

    She might even have been demoted to Lt. Commander, but, either way, I see after nine years, she could become Captain, again. She was a commander following the orders of an admiral. For her to choose the right path on her own, I think that saved her from being kicked out of Starfleet; she made the right decision in the end.

    I imagine she'd be transferred to another ship and everything else for that matter BUT I think it'd be more interesting to keep her on ship, storywise, having to work her way back up among the crew.

    Also, she was an adjutant, a staff officer who assists a commanding officer in issuing orders, like an executive officer. She may have just have been sent back to Starfleet Command, but that'd be boring haha

    It's really interesting; she also says that she "...understands the situation, Admiral," in a private communication right before Sisko walks in with his phaser. The admiral says, "as far as Captain Benteen's crew is concerned, the Defiant isn't a Starfleet ship..." implying that Benteen knew, though the crew didn't, which also shows me she knew the blood test was faked.

    Benteen's hesitation is the first giveaway, though. If she really believed they were shapeshifters, she wouldn't have hesitated AND argued, let alone stand down, with an admiral, especially being a newly promoted captain. Sisko calls her out anyway saying that she KNOWS they are Starfleet officers.

    I'd like to see it mentioned, somewhere in our story, that Benteen was demoted to Lt. Commander for her actions and had to serve on the very ship she commanded, as a fitting consequence. She'd have to work all that much harder, these nine years, to achieve the rank of Captain, again.

    Did Sisko keep the admiral pips?? hahaha
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    #3
    I voted for Benteen to be Captain, as Memory-Alpha is pretty much data based on the show itself. The below paragraph seems to show that Benteen is a dedicated officer to Starfleet and the Federation.

    When Leyton learned that the USS Defiant was en route to Earth, carrying proof that Leyton had been manufacturing evidence of a Changeling threat, he ordered Benteen to intercept and destroy them, claiming that the entire Defiant crew had been replaced by Changelings. The Lakota engaged the Defiant, but was unable to disable her due to the Defiant's ablative armor. Benteen subsequently contacted Leyton for further instructions, and was told to utilize the Lakota's quantum torpedoes to destroy the Defiant, but ultimately chose to defy orders, upon becoming convinced by Captain Sisko's impassioned argument that Leyton had been deceiving her. Benteen ordered the Lakota's weapons deactivated, and escorted the Defiant to Earth, averting Admiral Leyton's attempted takeover. (DS9: "Paradise Lost")
    (Source)

    I'll have to watch that episode again, but it seems that Benteen had no reason to 'not believe' her commanding officer's words and orders. Yes, she fired on the Defiant, but did not use her torpedoes.

    As such, I think she wouldn't have been demoted and wouldn't have lost command of the USS Lakota. Smile
    Silynn
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    #4
     –  Last edited by Allan Hood; Wed 15 Aug, 2018 6:14 AM.
    I voted for Benteen to be Captain, as Memory-Alpha is pretty much data based on the show itself. The below paragraph seems to show that Benteen is a dedicated officer to Starfleet and the Federation.


    (Source)

    I'll have to watch that episode again, but it seems that Benteen had no reason to 'not believe' her commanding officer's words and orders. Yes, she fired on the Defiant, but did not use her torpedoes.

    As such, I think she wouldn't have been demoted and wouldn't have lost command of the USS Lakota. Smile
    I think she trusted the admiral's decisions, being that he was an admiral, but was in on the fake blood test, for the reasons stated above. For being part of Admiral Leyton's attempted coup d'├ętat, the take over of the Federation, she should be demoted, I would think. What should have saved her from being kicked out of Starfleet is that she went against the admiral, in the end and stopped attacking the Defiant.

    What also would save her from being kicked from Starfleet is whether or not she knew about the plan to deploy Starfleet Security forces on Earth during a period of martial law. Did she know the depth of his plans and still agreed to follow? Or, did she blindly follow him at first, since he was an admiral and she was a commander, his adjutant?
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    #5
    I personally think that an option is missing - still in Starfleet but not on the Lakota... I feel this would be the most likely choice, especially considering the timing of her promotion is more than coincidence. She was promoted so Leyton had someone trustworthy- pure and simple. Her defying orders may have saved her Starfleet career but I doubt highly she would have remained in the Lakota at all. I reckon she would have continued work at Starfleet HQ or Acdemy, or what is most likely possible a role on a starbase or another vessel. Potentially only losing her promoted rank - so I would go for a fourth option: still in Starfleet but not on the Lakota.
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    #6
    I personally think that an option is missing - still in Starfleet but not on the Lakota... I feel this would be the most likely choice, especially considering the timing of her promotion is more than coincidence. She was promoted so Leyton had someone trustworthy- pure and simple. Her defying orders may have saved her Starfleet career but I doubt highly she would have remained in the Lakota at all. I reckon she would have continued work at Starfleet HQ or Acdemy, or what is most likely possible a role on a starbase or another vessel. Potentially only losing her promoted rank - so I would go for a fourth option: still in Starfleet but not on the Lakota.
    That's what I was saying too haha "She may have just have been sent back to Starfleet Command, but that'd be boring haha" If she didn't get kicked, I think that'd be most likely BUT I like the idea of her in command of the vessel, having to work her way up, from someone fighting against the Federation, to someone supporting the Federation. It's like a redemption story haha
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    #7
    I think she trusted the admiral's decisions, being that he was an admiral, but was in on the fake blood test, for the reasons stated above. For being part of Admiral Leyton's attempted coup d'├ętat, the take over of the Federation, she should be demoted, I would think. What should have saved her from being kicked out of Starfleet is that she went against the admiral, in the end and stopped attacking the Defiant.

    What also would save her from being kicked from Starfleet is whether or not she knew about the plan to deploy Starfleet Security forces on Earth during a period of martial law. Did she know the depth of his plans and still agreed to follow? Or, did she blindly follow him at first, since he was an admiral and she was a commander, his adjutant?
    I think there is only one possible way Benteen is in Starfleet at all: She had to have survived a Court Martial with no convictions. She'd either have to have no knowledge of any of it, or lie convincingly and say she didn't. Because she has a lot of really, really bad crimes.

    Let's say that she knew about the phony blood test. Then right there, she 1) Defrauded the President of the Federation regarding a matter of national security. 2) Tampered with evidence, 3) Filed a false report. 4) Arrested Sisko under false pretenses and deprived him of his freedom unlawfully.

    And if she knew about the test, that automatically implicates her in the conspiracy to commit treason. Why else arrest Sisko unless she knew he was interfering with Leytons plan? So besides the whole treason thing, there are all the charges that come by firing on the Defiant, the most significant of which are at least two counts of aggravated murder, and the assaults on the defiants other casualties, plus the 24 casualties on her ship. Like Asteropax said initially, ya can't really survive that. *LOL*

    So either she didn't know, or said she didn't know and got away with it. Both are intriguing.

    Oh, and by the way, let me apologize for my first act in this RP being to spark a controversy regarding an NPC that required a vote. *LOL* I had forgotten the episode and just saw her listed on Memory Alpha as the Captain!

    I blame the producers. As I said before, I think they were trying to avoid a Nick Locarno/Tom Paris situation. As some of you may remember, Locarno was the leader of Red Squad, who was expelled after causing the death of a member and having everyone cover it up. He was played by Robert Duncan McNeil, who they later brought back to play Tom Paris, who was inspired by the Locarno character. Part of the reason why they didn't just use Locarno is because they thought his involvement in the death of a cadet would make him too irredeemable to audiences. With this episode, if they ever wanted to bring Benteen back, they had an out, and could claim she didn't know. At least, that's what I think they were doing.

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
  6. Ares Commanding Officer

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    #8
    Oh, and by the way, let me apologize for my first act in this RP being to spark a controversy regarding an NPC that required a vote. *LOL* I had forgotten the episode and just saw her listed on Memory Alpha as the Captain!
    A really energetic discussion, not controversy.

    I knew as soon as I brought up the Lakota that there would be some questions on her Captain and wanted to know where things would go. I'm glad there was a lot of talk on the topic of Benteen's fate following the episode she appeared in. From the votes so far, it looks we'll be putting the same energy from the discussion into explaining how Captain Benteen commands the USS Lakota.

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    #9
    Storywise, I move to make it that Benteen:

    1) Was court martialed for her 'involvement' in the coup, firing on a Starfleet vessel, firing on a Federation vessel, Defrauded the President of the Federation regarding a matter of national security, tampering with evidence, filing a false report, arresting Sisko under false pretenses and deprived him of his freedom unlawfully...and anything else we can find. She'd have to be found guilty of all these things (which, should get her demoted even lower, if not thrown out)

    2) Demoted to Lieutenant Commander; she was only promoted to Captain as part of the coup, so it wasn't a "real" promotion

    3) She'd have to be ACQUITTED of "KNOWINGLY" being part of a coup to overthrow the Federation on Earth and establishing martial law. We could make it that the jury is like us, not able to come to agreement on whether or not she knew of an actual coup and the admiral's plans to overthrow the Federation. There would have to be a body of evidence that is not canon, which we don't have access to.

    4) Her naivete about the admiral's long-term plans of government takeover AND siding with Sisko in the end, which led to the admiral's arrest, is what saved her from being kicked out of Starfleet. Just like with 3), there would have to be a body of evidence that is not canon, which we don't have access to. We can also make it that her lawyer attempted to sell her story as a 'heroine' to the court, though the jury may or may not have bought into that haha cool from a JAG perspective.

    5) Being in any other century prior to this, she'd be thrown out of Starfleet, no question, but since it's the 24th century, they may have a more "enlightened" perspective on the consequences of her actions

    6) The Dominion War played a part in her rapid promotion to captain, again, after nine years. Her captain could have been killed, first officer injured?

    7) Any of our crew can interact with members of her crew, talking about this very subject, whether through gossip or just facts of the case that all led to this end.

    8 ) I'd personally like to see a scene where our captains meet before we start working together, where Teriir reads off all the charges she was found guilty of, and not guilty of, to Benteen, leading Teriir to question her loyalties and ability to defend Dorvan V, and seeing the project through to the end, even if her involvement is temporary until another ship comes to relieve them.
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    #10
    8 ) I'd personally like to see a scene where our captains meet before we start working together, where Teriir reads off all the charges she was found guilty of, and not guilty of, to Benteen, leading Teriir to question her loyalties and ability to defend Dorvan V, and seeing the project through to the end, even if her involvement is temporary until another ship comes to relieve them.
    This may bog down the overall story if it's more than a post or two, yet would be interesting to see. My presumption would be that Asteropax write the scene completely in order to "move on"?
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    #11
    8 ) I'd personally like to see a scene where our captains meet before we start working together, where Teriir reads off all the charges she was found guilty of, and not guilty of, to Benteen, leading Teriir to question her loyalties and ability to defend Dorvan V, and seeing the project through to the end, even if her involvement is temporary until another ship comes to relieve them.
    This one doesn't sit well at all. Who is Teriir to question the loyalty of someone that SF Command had promoted to Captain and has seniority? It kinda makes Teriir come off as bitter and petty when there's no reason for him to be. It's being overly antagonistic to a character that has done nothing to our crew and has been redeemed in the eyes of Starfleet. Plus if we take the Dominion war into account, chances are that Benteen has a fair amount of decorations and commendations to back up her loyalty and courage during her rise back to Captain.

    It's a little bit like Sisko being a tool towards Picard in Emissary because he blamed Picard for Locutus' actions. Sisko was damned lucky that Picard didn't roast him on the spot for insolence.
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    #12
    A really energetic discussion, not controversy.
    That sounds better!



    1) Was court martialed for her 'involvement' in the coup, firing on a Starfleet vessel, firing on a Federation vessel, Defrauded the President of the Federation regarding a matter of national security, tampering with evidence, filing a false report, arresting Sisko under false pretenses and deprived him of his freedom unlawfully...and anything else we can find. She'd have to be found guilty of all these things (which, should get her demoted even lower, if not thrown out)

    3) She'd have to be ACQUITTED of "KNOWINGLY" being part of a coup to overthrow the Federation on Earth and establishing martial law. We could make it that the jury is like us, not able to come to agreement on whether or not she knew of an actual coup and the admiral's plans to overthrow the Federation. There would have to be a body of evidence that is not canon, which we don't have access to.
    The problem is, though, if she's found guilty of any part of the conspiracy, her career is over. I don't think you can be acquitted of knowingly doing one of these crimes, then be charged with another mindset, like recklessly or negligently. They're pretty clear. Either she knew the blood test was fake or she didn't, and can't be held for recklessly or negligently defrauding the president. You have to know to defraud. Now concerning the firing on the ship, that's something you can do recklessly or negligently, but she had strict orders, so neither of those apply.

    Seems to me, she'd be court martialed, cleared, demoted and reassigned just because Leyton signed the orders, then sent off to limbo, maybe to some remote base where she couldn't cause any trouble if Leytons followers decided to continue. Maybe she'd never be trusted with a ship until things got really bad in the Dominion war.


    It's a little bit like Sisko being a tool towards Picard in Emissary because he blamed Picard for Locutus' actions. Sisko was damned lucky that Picard didn't roast him on the spot for insolence.
    Actually, it's a lot like that. We may say that Sisko was unreasonable for blaming Picard for his wife's death (gloriously unreasonable, as we'd later come to enjoy *l*) , but Picard didn't roast him because he probably know that a lot of officers didn't trust him anymore, unfounded or not. And he was surely feeling guilty himself, whether or not he should have.

    I think Benteen would be kind of the same situation. Even if she was cleared, a lot of people wouldn't trust her. She was part of a conspiracy, and some might think she was one of the actual conspirators. Nevertheless, Dominion War service would probably bring more people to respect her, but not to really like her or want to befriend her.

    A situation like that, in line with your point, doesn't warrant a confrontation. It could just be a single line of though in a post, like, "Captain Benteen, infamous throughout the fleet for her part in the Leyton Conspiracy, had distinguished herself in the Dominion War, particularly at the Battle of blah, blah, done."


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    #13
     –  Last edited by Asteropax; Fri 17 Aug, 2018 1:39 AM.
    This may bog down the overall story if it's more than a post or two, yet would be interesting to see. My presumption would be that Asteropax write the scene completely in order to "move on"?
    Yes and no.

    I would like to incorporate her into our story for more than a brief transmission. Our ship will be commanding the overall mission at Dorvan V and her ship will be providing additional support. Since she's the senior Captain there, she'll be talkative with my character who is new at being a Captain while she has some experience under her belt. I would like to hear a post or 2 from our new Tactical Officer on her since he's transferring from her ship to ours.

    Here's an overview of what I believe her service record would look like.
    Starfleet Service File
    Erika Benteen


    Age: 44

    Current Rank: Captain

    Overview:
    Early Service (2358-2372)
    Helmsman USS Ahwahnee (2358-2363), Operations Officer USS Odyssey (2363-2367), Operations Manager Starbase 219 (2367-23670), Adjunct to Admiral Leyton (2370-2372)

    Conspiracy (2372)
    Adjunct to Admiral Leyton until made Captain USS Lakota. Combat vs USS Defiant, Role thoroughly investigated in Court Martial; Demoted to Lieutenant Commander with formal reprimand on permanent record, unable to hold rank above Commander without high level review by Admiralty.

    Pre-Dominion War (2372-2373)
    Operations Officer USS Appalachia, combat against Borg in Battle of 001

    War Service (2373-2375)
    Operations Officer USS Appalachia until ship destroyed at Battle of Tyra, senior rank made her Acting Captain USS Lakota, Fought in a total of 22 battles and 35 skirmishes

    Post-Dominion War (2375-Present)
    High level review including Admirals Ross (CO Combined Forces), Ivanov (CO 6th Fleet), and Umstead (CO 7th Fleet), granted promotion to Captain USS Lakota

    Current Status
    Currently en-route to rendezvous with the USS [I]Ares[/] in the Dorvan System.

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    #14
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    This may bog down the overall story if it's more than a post or two, yet would be interesting to see. My presumption would be that Asteropax write the scene completely in order to "move on"?
    Right, right, that's what I'm thinking, too. We're discussing so much into this just for one post haha. We could probably get away with skipping her character altogether, but I don't feel like we're doing it justice. One post is all that's required and other people can add their own conversations with her, or her crew if they want, it's all open. Storywise, we only need one post.

    This one doesn't sit well at all. Who is Teriir to question the loyalty of someone that SF Command had promoted to Captain and has seniority? It kinda makes Teriir come off as bitter and petty when there's no reason for him to be. It's being overly antagonistic to a character that has done nothing to our crew and has been redeemed in the eyes of Starfleet. Plus if we take the Dominion war into account, chances are that Benteen has a fair amount of decorations and commendations to back up her loyalty and courage during her rise back to Captain.

    It's a little bit like Sisko being a tool towards Picard in Emissary because he blamed Picard for Locutus' actions. Sisko was damned lucky that Picard didn't roast him on the spot for insolence.
    Teriir is a commanding officer that has stayed loyal to the Federation his whole career. Even though Benteen was misguided, I can easily see someone questioning her. She can easily respond back with "what gives you the right..." I feel like it's a trust thing because the Ares crew is going to put so much work into Dorvan V to hand it off to someone who has a history of being court martialed and possibly overthrowing the Federation. I see human nature being very tempted to question her ability and loyalties. I'd say if the charges weren't so serious, it'd be more bitter, petty and overly antagonistic. I'm looking at it more like if it was me, I'd be hesitant to hand off everything to her. I'd be thinking to myself..."you...??" That could be part of the conflict she has to overcome, what she overcame among her own crew.

    That's a great idea, we should have it that she has earned her fair share of canon decorations and commendations for specific canon battles. Benteen can be like, "you're only telling half the story..." that'd be cool.

    Sisko being a tool towards Picard in Emissary...I've gone back and forth on that so many times.

    The only reason Picard didn't roast Sisko is because Picard was feeling guilty and responsible for, not only Sisko's wife's death already, also the deaths of others aboard forty ships. Picard's struggle with that is seen in "Family," which was awesome. He's not able to shake that.

    Sisko was at war with himself, his LOGICAL side that understands how Locutus isn't Picard, and his EMOTIONAL side, that tells him he's standing in the same room as the murderer of his wife, almost killer of his son, and a traitor to Starfleet, all the things that Sisko holds the most sacred. When DS9 first came on, I totally agreed, how can anyone act like that with Captain Picard?? How can anyone ever be so disrespectful to PICARD??? But now, I feel more empathy for the conflict inside Sisko.

    Trek is awesome haha the exploration of humanity was done so well.
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    #15
     –  Last edited by Allan Hood; Tue 21 Aug, 2018 4:19 AM.
    Seems to me, she'd be court martialed, cleared, demoted and reassigned just because Leyton signed the orders, then sent off to limbo, maybe to some remote base where she couldn't cause any trouble if Leytons followers decided to continue. Maybe she'd never be trusted with a ship until things got really bad in the Dominion war.
    Right, this is totally more realistic haha storywise, I want to make it more interesting though. That's exactly the position I took earlier, then changed my mind cause I want her character in the story haha

    All those steps I mentioned earlier are for her to show up in our story haha that's it. In my mind, those things have to happen for that to be possible and her have the rank of captain of that particular ship.
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