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[Discussion] - S2E05 "Saints of Imperfection" Discussion

Started By:
Three of Seven, Thu 14 Feb, 2019 5:30 PM
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View Poll Results: What did you think of the Episode?

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  • Liked it

    11 64.71%
  • Neither liked or disliked it

    2 11.76%
  • Disliked it

    4 23.53%
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    #16
    Back to the Burnham-centric episode. Episode starts with Burnham running to the rescue, opening narrative in tow.

    Burnham invites herself along with Stamets to search for Tilly in Spore World. When everyone knows that time is an issue, they still take the time to work their feels out before heading back to the spore chamber. Culber's resurrection was unbelievable...lazy writing. Because we want him back...magic! He's back! I don't appreciate lazy writing.

    I like this version of Georgiou, though I would prefer a more invisible Section 31. As portrayed in this episode, Section 31 has a VERY Tal Shiar quality about them.

    More Spock teasing. Ugh...

    To finish the episode off, we get another self-righteous narrative from Burnham, with her making her grand entrance on the bridge, resuming her post at her station.

    This episode had potential, but once again, it was wasted. Unnecessary, forced drama, followed by unearned, drawn out moments for emotional responses from the cast, when the lives of the entire crew are at risk. This behavior is expected from teenagers, but professional, trained military officers wouldn't even be considering their feels until the mission was over, and the ship was safe. I'm watching Star Trek: High School! I hope that the writing is better going forward.

    I gave last week's episode a pass, because it appeared that they were moving towards better character development, and more ensemble involvement. This week was a total reversion to Burnham-centricity. I did not enjoy this week's episode.

    I'm not a Discovery hater. I love Star Trek, and will continue to watch Discovery, if only to encourage more Star Trek development in the future. Discovery can usually be entertaining sci-fi, if I don't think about it very much. It's not the Star Trek that I want, but it's the Star Trek that we've got.
    To be fare, it is Burnham's show as much as I wish it wasn't. Burnham is Tilly's friend and bunkmate so it would make sense for her to go.
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    #17
    They did actually state before it was even filmed that the show would not be the same format as before and following a lower ranking crew member was going to be the thing. I remember also reading that we weren't supposed to like Burnham the same way other series had characters we'd like and latch on to. She's meant to be and outsider, and not the typical SF officer.
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    #18
    To be fare, it is Burnham's show as much as I wish it wasn't. Burnham is Tilly's friend and bunkmate so it would make sense for her to go.
    I have no problem with Burnham being concerned for her friend and bunkmate. If I had my druthers, I'd have started the episode on the bridge with Captain Pike ordering a team to engineering, with Burnham, if need be. With the episode starting as it did, I'm left feeling like Burnham just does whatever she wants and the show follows her and her exploits. That feels like a teenage drama to me. With my druthers, it'd feel like Star Trek, with a system of command and control befitting a military ship. Just my opinion. We all have one, and I respect yours.

    They did actually state before it was even filmed that the show would not be the same format as before and following a lower ranking crew member was going to be the thing. I remember also reading that we weren't supposed to like Burnham the same way other series had characters we'd like and latch on to. She's meant to be and outsider, and not the typical SF officer.
    You are correct. Discovery came out of the gate stating that they would be focusing on a female character, who was not the captain. I can't comment on the rest of your statement, aside from saying that making the main character of a new show unlikeable probably isn't the best business model. Unfortunately, Burnham is only one of the problems with Discovery. I could probably endure Burnham better if the writing wasn't so adolescent.

    I respect everyone's opinion regarding Burnham, and DIscovery. Those who enjoy, wonderful for them! Personally, I am extremely put off by Burnham, the character, the actor, and how the character is written. It makes Discovery less enjoyable to me as a Star Trek TV show. The production values are good for a TV sci-fi show, and with that standard, it is fine sci-fi to me. It's when I try to mind-meld it into the Star Trek universe in my brain that Discovery doesn't satisfy. That's just my opinion though.

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    #19
    I respect everyone's opinion regarding Burnham, and DIscovery. Those who enjoy, wonderful for them! Personally, I am extremely put off by Burnham, the character, the actor, and how the character is written. It makes Discovery less enjoyable to me as a Star Trek TV show. The production values are good for a TV sci-fi show, and with that standard, it is fine sci-fi to me. It's when I try to mind-meld it into the Star Trek universe in my brain that Discovery doesn't satisfy. That's just my opinion though.
    I share these thoughts, but everyone knows that already by now! I miss the old ensemble casting of all the other Star Treks, where everyone played an important role, this is just Burnham jumping into everything, and knowing everything. It's just not fun.

    The episode itself? I can't say I was a fan, bringing back a dead character now removes some of the character of Stamets, with a tragic death, it gave his character some emotional depth, but now that's been fixed with fairytale magic. The death of Tasha Yar added to Datas character in TNG. Although, saw Hugh coming back one way or another ever since he first died, it was pretty obvious he wasn't going to stay dead, Discovery is having a real problem with keeping characters dead, next we'll see Lorca again...

    My biggest wish is that they do some episodes where they just focus on other characters, giving Burnham minimal input and screentime, just for a bit, see what it's like. I know they haven't done that, and it's a shame, but yeah, Burnham being the focus is really want annoys me most about Discovery.
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    #20
    I share these thoughts, but everyone knows that already by now! I miss the old ensemble casting of all the other Star Treks, where everyone played an important role, this is just Burnham jumping into everything, and knowing everything. It's just not fun.

    The episode itself? I can't say I was a fan, bringing back a dead character now removes some of the character of Stamets, with a tragic death, it gave his character some emotional depth, but now that's been fixed with fairytale magic. The death of Tasha Yar added to Datas character in TNG. Although, saw Hugh coming back one way or another ever since he first died, it was pretty obvious he wasn't going to stay dead, Discovery is having a real problem with keeping characters dead, next we'll see Lorca again...

    My biggest wish is that they do some episodes where they just focus on other characters, giving Burnham minimal input and screentime, just for a bit, see what it's like. I know they haven't done that, and it's a shame, but yeah, Burnham being the focus is really want annoys me most about Discovery.
    I believe this was the last episode under the old team of writers and show runners. Everything forward is Kurtzman. I'm curious to see how drastic of a change we see (if at all) over the rest of the season; good or bad.
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    #21
    Well, it's back to rolling my eyes when it comes to Burnham. When it comes to overacting, Burham makes Shatner look docile! What makes it worse is that they give her a platform to do it and highlight her total lack of acting ability.

    As for the actual episode, I'm liking this show a little more each week. While I did not totally buy into the doctor coming back storywise, he was an important part of the cast as the doctor usually is in Star Trek, so it's actually a good thing.

    It was awesome to see Tilly show a little rage. She even scared me a little with that tantrum! Her look was priceless.

    We still need more Pike... not that I want him to take over the show, but in my opinion his presence has placed the show on much more solid footing.

    Finally, we will just have to tolerate Section 31 until the Georgio spinoff is released. That's not a terrible thing, since it will actually give us a foundation for the series. I expect some really interesting storylines from that show.

    Here's hoping next week is yet another step in the right direction.
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    #22
    Well, it's back to rolling my eyes when it comes to Burnham. When it comes to overacting, Burham makes Shatner look docile! What makes it worse is that they give her a platform to do it and highlight her total lack of acting ability.

    As for the actual episode, I'm liking this show a little more each week. While I did not totally buy into the doctor coming back storywise, he was an important part of the cast as the doctor usually is in Star Trek, so it's actually a good thing.

    It was awesome to see Tilly show a little rage. She even scared me a little with that tantrum! Her look was priceless.

    We still need more Pike... not that I want him to take over the show, but in my opinion his presence has placed the show on much more solid footing.

    Finally, we will just have to tolerate Section 31 until the Georgio spinoff is released. That's not a terrible thing, since it will actually give us a foundation for the series. I expect some really interesting storylines from that show.

    Here's hoping next week is yet another step in the right direction.
    I’m just hoping we meet Discovery’s CMO one day
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    #23
    Well, it's back to rolling my eyes when it comes to Burnham. When it comes to overacting, Burham makes Shatner look docile! What makes it worse is that they give her a platform to do it and highlight her total lack of acting ability.

    As for the actual episode, I'm liking this show a little more each week. While I did not totally buy into the doctor coming back storywise, he was an important part of the cast as the doctor usually is in Star Trek, so it's actually a good thing.

    It was awesome to see Tilly show a little rage. She even scared me a little with that tantrum! Her look was priceless.

    We still need more Pike... not that I want him to take over the show, but in my opinion his presence has placed the show on much more solid footing.

    Finally, we will just have to tolerate Section 31 until the Georgio spinoff is released. That's not a terrible thing, since it will actually give us a foundation for the series. I expect some really interesting storylines from that show.

    Here's hoping next week is yet another step in the right direction.
    LOL! Wait, no....let's be respectful of the legend! NO one comes close to overacting as Shatner, except for the modern day legend, Avery Brooks. They are alone on the Mount Rushmore of Overacting.

    Sonequa isn't an overactor....she just....well, she does a lot with her face. A lot. And I think were just not used to it. It can seem tiresome, but I appreciate it for the most part. After years of seeing characters just stare into the distance, like Janeway on every commercial break, it's nice to see a higher standard. Her main problem is that Doug Jones clobbers everyone with his subtlety.

    I kind of look at Burham as embracing emotion more fully after years of being repressed. That's why shes so hyped up about everything. I do have to credit her with one of the best pieces of acting in the show though - her hilarious and subtle reaction to Admiral Cornwell phasering the fortune cookies. Anyone who has ever been in a meeting that went violently south knows that look!

    - - - Updated - - -

    I’m just hoping we meet Discovery’s CMO one day
    I think its Doctor Pollard. I hope it is. Love her sarcasm. I think she kind of hates everyone on that ship, and its glorious.
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    #24
    I think its Doctor Pollard. I hope it is. Love her sarcasm. I think she kind of hates everyone on that ship, and its glorious.
    Question for you guys:

    What rank is Doc Pollard? I thought I saw Lt pips on her badge and yet, I'm sure that Hugh had more than Two pips on his badge during the flashback scene. If so, that could mean that, assuming he's fit for duty, he could take over as CMO.
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    #25
    LOL! Wait, no....let's be respectful of the legend! NO one comes close to overacting as Shatner, except for the modern day legend, Avery Brooks. They are alone on the Mount Rushmore of Overacting.

    Sonequa isn't an overactor....she just....well, she does a lot with her face. A lot. And I think were just not used to it. It can seem tiresome, but I appreciate it for the most part. After years of seeing characters just stare into the distance, like Janeway on every commercial break, it's nice to see a higher standard. Her main problem is that Doug Jones clobbers everyone with his subtlety.

    I kind of look at Burham as embracing emotion more fully after years of being repressed. That's why shes so hyped up about everything. I do have to credit her with one of the best pieces of acting in the show though - her hilarious and subtle reaction to Admiral Cornwell phasering the fortune cookies. Anyone who has ever been in a meeting that went violently south knows that look!

    - - - Updated - - -



    I think its Doctor Pollard. I hope it is. Love her sarcasm. I think she kind of hates everyone on that ship, and its glorious.
    So I thought maybe as well. Dr. Pollard was in season 1 but Culber who we know is not the CMO outranks her. So I don’t think she is.
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    #26
    Question for you guys:

    What rank is Doc Pollard? I thought I saw Lt pips on her badge and yet, I'm sure that Hugh had more than Two pips on his badge during the flashback scene. If so, that could mean that, assuming he's fit for duty, he could take over as CMO.

    So I thought maybe as well. Dr. Pollard was in season 1 but Culber who we know is not the CMO outranks her. So I don’t think she is.
    Yeah, I never noticed that. Memory Alpha says that Pollard is a Lt Jg. and Culber is a Lt. CMDR. So, yeah, he stands a better chance. Unless Starfleet doesnt always go by rank, which is possible. I feel like Harry Kim and B'Ellana had people outrank them in their departments. I think Hogan outranked B'Ellana by a step. But here, it makes more sense that Hugh is, and Pollard stepped up after his death.
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    #27
    Back to the Burnham-centric episode. Episode starts with Burnham running to the rescue, opening narrative in tow.

    Burnham invites herself along with Stamets to search for Tilly in Spore World. When everyone knows that time is an issue, they still take the time to work their feels out before heading back to the spore chamber. Culber's resurrection was unbelievable...lazy writing. Because we want him back...magic! He's back! I don't appreciate lazy writing.

    I like this version of Georgiou, though I would prefer a more invisible Section 31. As portrayed in this episode, Section 31 has a VERY Tal Shiar quality about them.

    More Spock teasing. Ugh...

    To finish the episode off, we get another self-righteous narrative from Burnham, with her making her grand entrance on the bridge, resuming her post at her station.

    This episode had potential, but once again, it was wasted. Unnecessary, forced drama, followed by unearned, drawn out moments for emotional responses from the cast, when the lives of the entire crew are at risk. This behavior is expected from teenagers, but professional, trained military officers wouldn't even be considering their feels until the mission was over, and the ship was safe. I'm watching Star Trek: High School! I hope that the writing is better going forward.

    I gave last week's episode a pass, because it appeared that they were moving towards better character development, and more ensemble involvement. This week was a total reversion to Burnham-centricity. I did not enjoy this week's episode.

    I'm not a Discovery hater. I love Star Trek, and will continue to watch Discovery, if only to encourage more Star Trek development in the future. Discovery can usually be entertaining sci-fi, if I don't think about it very much. It's not the Star Trek that I want, but it's the Star Trek that we've got.
    I think they should rename it to Star Trek Burnham hehe
    the ep was predicable to me I knew right away well not right aways but with in a few seconds when Discovery was in the Zone twho the Monster was.
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    #28
    Yeah, I never noticed that. Memory Alpha says that Pollard is a Lt Jg. and Culber is a Lt. CMDR. So, yeah, he stands a better chance. Unless Starfleet doesnt always go by rank, which is possible. I feel like Harry Kim and B'Ellana had people outrank them in their departments. I think Hogan outranked B'Ellana by a step. But here, it makes more sense that Hugh is, and Pollard stepped up after his death.
    Except that Hugh wasn’t the CMO in season 1 either.
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