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[Discussion] - Competence of the Playerbase

Started By:
Bridger, Thu 28 Feb, 2019 10:41 AM
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    #1
    One of the things that is extremely present in Star Trek Online is the huge gap between abilities of the players to handel Advanced and Elite content in Star Trek Online.

    This lead to ask myself the question is this the fault of Cryptic, when they started to dump down the STF's make them easier and finally split them into Space and Ground.

    From my point of view it is their fault, the original Borg STF's required teamwork, dedication and at the end of it you had the feeling you have accomplished something, the current content we have in Star Trek Online does not do this at all.

    What is your opinion?
    Bridger
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    #2
    I think it's simply too time consuming and not rewarding enough. I wasn't around that long ago in STO so I wouldn't really know how things used to be. But from what I can tell you now after playing it for several months is that it's too time consuming.

    I can easily play through most Advanced missions at the moment, after months upon months of grinding and doing painfully long missions with random players. But Elite? I get one shot. We simply don't have the required skills, sets, item ranks to even think about surviving the end game. Normally this would be fine if the end game stuff is obtainable, but right now, it's not. The mid game has nothing to offer, at all. All I can do at the moment is grind the same mission over and over and over and over again, for the exact same rewards, with the exact same difficulty, and occasionally with players that are so under geared that I might as well be running solo. In all honesty, the most exciting thing I did in my mid game was completing my reputation trees so I can use the fireworks.

    This all means that I have absolutely no desire to go for the end game. It's simply boring. The built a decent bridge between the early game and the mid game stuff, but then they decided to put the Grand Canyon between the mid game and the end game. If Cryptic would give us something to do during the mid game to prepare us for at least some missions on Elite difficulty and end game, I'd do it.
  2. Quartermaster

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    #3
     –  Last edited by Mack; Thu 28 Feb, 2019 10:57 AM.
    Back when I was playing STO actively and in another fleet, I was part of an Omega Squadron not much different from ESF. We did Elite Runs but most importantly we taught the members the tactics and gearing for their class.

    Due to the difficulties back in the day, as soon as people hit 50 they would themselves try to figure out how to configure their gear, abilities and play style to beat advanced+ content and earn better gear. Back then content was tough that you could only carry one member in the team (often used to teach them) - the other 4 had to be competent and geared or else it would just fail.

    It honestly took so many hours of runs to get that MACO Elite Commander accolade on my main.

    Today, you can just take whatever you want to the queue, regardless of what you do you get some marks and which end up getting you gear. So eventually people earn the good gear but still don't know how to use it. And the way it is, it doesn't even matter now.

    So yes, it is Cryptic's fault. They didn't just made it easy, they made earning the marks without completing queues simpler too. Basically participation certificates started holding merit.
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    #4
    I'd say it's a symptom of the game being aimed at too wide a range of "players" and there simply not being a means to cater to them all equally.

    There are gamers playing who enjoy chasing down the minutiae of DPS numbers down to the tiniest percentage to improve constantly. There are the social gamers who just enjoy chatting about Trek or whatever and dressing up with their ship and friends.
    Then there are the casual Trekkies who just want to fly an Excelsior or whatever and pretend to be Kirk or Pike etc. and are happy plodding along at the bottom of the DPS ladder.

    Trouble is the game only really caters to one group these days and that is the guys who like shooting stuff. Not the top end guys chasing DPS because they don't really have anywhere to play either and end up in advanced runs where they "steal" all the thunder from the middle guys.
    There's no real content that isn't just mindless shooting and literally all of the gear in the game needs to be earned via a form of combat in mission or BZ's etc. You can't earn fleet marks by exploring the galaxy, you can't get rich just sitting RP'ing at being a fleet admiral in ESD.

    But there's a lot of other issues at play as well:

    - Universal rewards means people end up just treating the game like a business and only gravitate towards the best paying content. The rest is left to rot and be forgotten. No longer do the majority play the content simply for the content, they play only for the best return because......

    - the game is a grind-fest. Literally every single aspect of the game requires grinding out X for Y time period. So it's no wonder people look for the best rewards for their time. When people treat a game like a job, with daily "tasks" they set themselves for efficient earning you know something is wrong.

    - players get too hung up on the latest "meta" and cookie cutter builds, there's little experimentation from a majority beyond copying whatever the latest good idea on r/STObuilds is. You used to explore what would work for a ship, now most people just follow a shopping list set by a DPS crowd and don't really understand what goes on beneath the hood so to speak.

    - there's no reason to try to improve! or to learn anything! or to aim higher! You can get everything by being lazy and just tagging along all the time. There's no failure in most missions, injuries have no effect, death i meaningless. And you can now buy your way past event if you are too lazy to run a daily task. The game is becoming one of dumbed down laziness with no incentive for players to get better and push themselves.
    SulMatuul
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    #5
    What is the cause of people going into the content they cannot manage is down to the silly implementation of Elite mark rewards, you would see a more balanced approach from novice players if they awarded 1 elite for normal 2 for advanced and 3 for elite. The current system forces them to do content they may not be ready for to get the gear they need to do that content. So with that in mind yes i agree that it is Cryptics fault for that.
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    #6
    I'd even go as far as to say perhaps some sort of unlock system might help. You need to run a mission 3 times on normal to unlock advanced and so on. I know Cryptic are against locking content behind walls but if you cannot pass a normal mission then should you really be trying the advanced version?

    Or, a better way would be to convert/copy the normal versions of the TFO's into actual missions populated by an AI team that guides you through the objectives. I mean they moved the basic TFOs into a mission menu as part of various side missions from Quinn etc but that was just a half arsed job. If players had the chance to run ISA as an actual mission with guidance, voiceovers etc. then they might learn the way to play it before going into the advanced versions.
    SulMatuul
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    #7
    I agree with most that has been said upwards.

    The game has to cater most of its players. That's not negociable. For us to have where to play STO, people need to enjoy it for different reasons and monetize their taste.

    The skill gap isn't that large if players would READ the text instead of minimizing it and smashing buttons.

    The real issue for me is that I want to relax and enjoy in STO. It should be a trekkie dynamic experience.

    Waiting for queues (tfo) to pop can still be frustrating and the pugs are sheeps to the slaughter or worse, you die because you carry and then get berrated for their lack of performance.

    Cryptic is doing a good job. I encourage them to invest into what they did previously and do some Romulan ships in the mean time. Maybe add certain rewards for advanced/elite versions of playable single player missions to stimulate us rerunning them and making them a completion quest for all missions, normal, advanced and elite.

    The game is way friendlier to new people than it was back when I started.
    Truth is uncomfortable most of the times. That's why you gotta face it every time.

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    #8
    I am one of those button mashers who does not care about the story, has macros (for space only) tied to four buttons, and values style over deeps. I mean, why else would I use Herald Antiproton weapons? They're purple. PURPLE!

    I grind Deep Space Encounters and DOff missions. I don't do a TFO unless I have to for Events or Endeavors because the wait can seem endless. Then you either end up with Rambo or Bambi. As for the Borg TFOs, there's no explanation. They just drop you in, and let you figure it out. I used to run the Red Alerts because that's where everybody was. Tholian and Borg Red Alerts got a couple of my toons through the Rep system.

    I don't mind the grind. I'm not in this for the deeps or even the story. I'm in it for the art, and the goodies. "There's a new [thing] I can get by doing [something grindy]? Sign me up." I will grind and grind and grind to get the 'free' [T6] Event ship. But once I have it, I have to look for the NEXT thing to grind out.

    I am the reason STO has been dumbed down. Sorry about that.
    "And when I saw the breadth of my domain, I wept, for there were no more worlds left to conquer."
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    #9
     –  Last edited by Sul-Matuul; Thu 28 Feb, 2019 5:40 PM.
    I am the reason STO has been dumbed down. Sorry about that.
    Right that settles it...

    ALL BLAME LIES WITH ARIMIMOCHI TAKU BY HIS OWN ADMISSION!!!!

    Let the flogging commence....Thumbs up
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    #10
    It doesn't scale the difficulty well at all between Normal to Advanced to Elite. Back with the old STFs, the content just gradually got harder, but you can see how it is done in normal, then advanced added a few dangers, with elite going "and now here's the true test".

    Now it is just here's easy, here's slightly more difficult than easy and then "you better have a particular set up if you want to do this" difficulty. So yes, it is Cryptics fault in that part.

    Though I will say the normal people who play STO aren't much better either. We just want to plug and play, not bother with figuring out how to make an A2B build that provided constant up time for skills and just go balls to the wall on damage output. I say we, because I include myself in this category now.

    I just can't be bothered trying to figure it out(at least anymore). I just want to jump in and play at being Captain of the Hero Ship of STO.
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    #11
    Right that settles it...

    ALL BLAME LIES WITH ARIMIMOCHI TAKU BY HIS OWN ADMISSION!!!!

    Let the flogging commence....Thumbs up
    Flogging is too good a fate, let's talk about Keel Hauling Smile

    In seriousness, I have my rotational abilities tied to a keybind that controls my aux to bat and some tac abilities. I'm rubbish at keeping situational awareness so I don't get the most benefit from piloting as I usually end up turning the wrong way to take advantage of proper positioning in my Gagarin. Things were so much simpler in the Eternal, park just under 10k, throw a grav well, wait for a couple seconds then BAM, Torp spread and or DRB. Everything tended to melt super quick and you'd move on to the next set of enemies.
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    #12
    I'm more of a standard player, if such a thing exists. I put my characters in normal outfits (Not Orions XD) and I can do a bit of DPS, but not as much as some of the pros. I'm more standard. I play the game normally without buying zen for stuff.
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    • WelshAvenger
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    #13
    Well, I fly the teeny-tiny Pilot Escorts. I have to keep close and moving. I run the Aegis Impulse engines as a vanity overlay so I can track where I am in the scrum. My macros take up 4 rows in the trays, and I cycle through them depending on what I'm looking for: Personal healing, Team buffs, BIG Effects, and weapon boosts. I am IN it when I fly. Dual Heavy Cannons. I have to face what I'm killing. I can't just hover at 9.2k and make circles. I'm shield scraping. That's my rush. That's why I don't pay attention to the story. The story doesn't matter when what you're doing is climbing into the impulse wake of a target and ramming some purple antiprotons into his impulse vents.

    Danger Zone makes sense to me.
    Out along the edges
    Always where I burn to be
    The further on the edge
    The hotter the intensity


    I am the epitome of mediocrity, I am the 'everyman' that Cryptic want playing. I need, I desire, I am willing to pay for what I want (on occasion). Dumb, fat, and happy is no way to go through life, but it's what game designers drool over. lol
    "And when I saw the breadth of my domain, I wept, for there were no more worlds left to conquer."
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    • Taku
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    #14
    Okay........ Two works. Dammit Taku