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[Discussion] - S2E14 "Such Sweet Sorrow Part 2" Discussion

Started By:
, Thu 18 Apr, 2019 10:13 PM
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View Poll Results: What did you think of the Episode?

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  • Liked it

    20 71.43%
  • Neither liked or disliked it

    3 10.71%
  • Disliked it

    5 17.86%
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    #16
    I didn't like this episode. The action was very good, but the script just killed it for me.

    What I liked:

    1) The special effects were very good throughout the battle.

    2) No borg origin story...that we know of.

    3) Ending with the Enterprise and her crew seemed like a very nice tease for a new Pike captained Enterprise Star Trek show. I hope that they do it!

    4) TOS end credit music mixed in at the end.

    What I didn't like, in no particular order:

    1) Most of the dialogue, throughout the episode. The writing is just bad.

    2) Why did they have to jump to the future? Control was destroyed before they left. A lazy and unnecessary plot device, just to escape the continuity problems that they've created with Discovery

    3) How the hell did just closing the blast door protect Captain Pike, let alone everything else that they were concerned about getting blown up? The saucer section was 1/4 to 1/3 gone after the explosion, but Pike could stand right there and watch Admiral Cornwell sacrifice herself!!! The ENTIRE area around the torpedo was destroyed! How is Pike still alive?!? CRAP writing to give Pike and Cornwell a moment. For that matter, why did Pike and Number One have to trade places? Waste of time. Pike may have thought that he couldn't die then and there, but if that was his thinking, he should have been the one to go in the first place!

    4) I thought that the time crystal only had enough charge for a one-way trip, but Burnham can make 5 trips prior to unnecessarily taking the Discovery 950 years into the future. Doesn't anyone proof the script before they shoot the episode?!?

    5) Pike's farewell to Discovery ending with...my family...UGH!!! The dialogue in this show hurts my soul.

    6) All of the pauses, when time was of the essence, for emotional moments, complete with sappy, bad dialogue!

    7) Discovery didn't look battle damaged at all, while heading into the wormhole. Discovery was limping out of a very destructive battle. How could she look all shiny? I don't get it.

    Cool I thought that Tyler wasn't allowed to show himself to the Klingons, because the Chancellor had already officially fake-killed him. Why is he barking orders alongside the Chancellor, on her ship?

    9) What is the need for the super hush-hush regarding the existence of Discovery, her crew, and what happened to them? Everyone synced their story that DIscovery was destroyed. Aside from Top Secret tech, like the spore drive, what is the need to erase the rest from history, except to clean up Discovery's canon problems. How will Starfleet deal with the families, most of whom have probably received farewells from their loved ones on Discovery. Sloppy.

    Random thought:

    Tyler is in charge of S31 now. Did Georgiou beam off of Discovery, before it went through the wormhole, or is she going to the future? If so, is the new S31 series starring her, going to take place in the future?
    Of your likes, I really liked the special effects and that theme mixing at the end!

    Of your dislikes:

    2) Leland was destroyed before they left. Control didn't necessarily have to be destroyed. It's an AI. It could have backups anywhere. The portion of Control fighting in that area was destroyed, apparently. Or went dormant.

    3) You're absolutely on the money with this one! It was kind of ridiculous and pointless. I mean, yeah, it's emotional, but that had a poor payoff, because I dont think the Pike that they established steps out of that room that quickly, or at all. She didn't even order him to leave. But look.....you've got two geniuses that know how to perform surgery on a photon torpedo, and they couldn't figure out like I did to get something to tie to the manual lever, and run it under some debris so you can pull it down from outside of the blast door? It served no purpose. It didn't even really serve an emotional payoff, because I dont know if anyone loves Cornwell. And when I saw that the situation I thought hey were trying to avoid - a big hole in the Enterprise, actually happened, then I was really confused.

    4) Good catch. Maybe it meant for the "distance" through time it was covering. A bunch of little trips to the near past was less taxing than the one a thousand years into the future. Still needed to be addressed.

    7) It was said that Control was trying to keep the Discovery more intact.

    Cool I assumed that the people on the bridge were close to L'Rell enough to keep her secrets.

    9) Control. If Control is lying dormant somewhere, you dont want it to find out that the Discovery jumped into the future, you want it to think the sphere data is destroyed. I'm assuming that this makes it easy for Starfleet to just send their families a death letter instead of explaining what happened.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I am not sure what I just saw but it was beyond stupid.
    *LOLOL* I'm not saying I agree with this review, but it is an awesome review, nonetheless. *LOL* It's like the Wizard of Oz review that says something like, "Woman arrives in a new town and immediately kills someone, then hooks up with friends to continue killing."
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    #17
    *LOLOL* I'm not saying I agree with this review, but it is an awesome review, nonetheless. *LOL* It's like the Wizard of Oz review that says something like, "Woman arrives in a new town and immediately kills someone, then hooks up with friends to continue killing."
    That was a statement and no review, if I would make one you would see the difference.
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    #18
     –  Last edited by Minnow Raydor; Fri 19 Apr, 2019 3:00 PM.
    I felt so pulled into the story for the middle and last parts of this season somthing the first season failed to do!. I hated the over dramatic dialogue in the first few episodes but they reeled it back in with the rest. Cant say what my feelings are for season 3 I like the idea of post nemesis but that ending of season 2 felt more like a movie than a TV show so how do you go forward from here.

    Not one for doing lists of things I liked or hated but the whole time at the end had me scratching my head. They cant delete the data and cant blow up the ship but Burnham has to go solo into the future with the ship hmm was a phaser pointed at the warp core or a bomb just out of the question both actions would have been a solo job other than being more dramatic the way they picked it should have been added in as to why they did not just seems very silly.
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    #19
    Of your likes, I really liked the special effects and that theme mixing at the end!

    Of your dislikes:

    2) Leland was destroyed before they left. Control didn't necessarily have to be destroyed. It's an AI. It could have backups anywhere. The portion of Control fighting in that area was destroyed, apparently. Or went dormant.

    3) You're absolutely on the money with this one! It was kind of ridiculous and pointless. I mean, yeah, it's emotional, but that had a poor payoff, because I dont think the Pike that they established steps out of that room that quickly, or at all. She didn't even order him to leave. But look.....you've got two geniuses that know how to perform surgery on a photon torpedo, and they couldn't figure out like I did to get something to tie to the manual lever, and run it under some debris so you can pull it down from outside of the blast door? It served no purpose. It didn't even really serve an emotional payoff, because I dont know if anyone loves Cornwell. And when I saw that the situation I thought hey were trying to avoid - a big hole in the Enterprise, actually happened, then I was really confused.

    4) Good catch. Maybe it meant for the "distance" through time it was covering. A bunch of little trips to the near past was less taxing than the one a thousand years into the future. Still needed to be addressed.

    7) It was said that Control was trying to keep the Discovery more intact.

    8) I assumed that the people on the bridge were close to L'Rell enough to keep her secrets.

    9) Control. If Control is lying dormant somewhere, you dont want it to find out that the Discovery jumped into the future, you want it to think the sphere data is destroyed. I'm assuming that this makes it easy for Starfleet to just send their families a death letter instead of explaining what happened.
    The fact that we are forced to assume, or make excuses for the story, in order for it to make sense, is a HUGE problem!

    The lack of consistency within their own writing, not to mention within canon, is lazy. It hinders the immersiveness of the story they're trying to tell.

    It makes me sad, as a lifelong fan of Star Trek, to see such little care put into the plot/writing on Discovery. It feels like it's not aimed at Star Trek fans, but at young, super emotional, over-dramatic, wear your feels on your sleeves types. Details don't seem to matter much. Discovery puts too much emphasis on unnecessary, manufactured emotional plot points. As I've said before, Discovery is a soap opera. The writers are willing to trample over their own story in order to strike an emotional moment.

    It's assumed that Star Trek fans will come along for the ride regardless, because this is the only Trek we can get right now. I fall into that category. I've been watching, because I love Star Trek, but honestly, I've been really hating Discovery. I'll watch the Picard series, but if it falls into the same writing pitfall that Discovery has been unable to escape from, I'm going to have to dismiss everything that CBSAA dumps out, until I hear that things have changed. My quitting Discovery is no loss for many of you apparently, given so many glowing reviews, but it disappoints me that CBSAA is turning Star Trek into a super emo shroom trip, where story is secondary to getting the feels about what you're watching. Good writing generates its own emotion at appropriate points within the story, organically, without feeling forced or unearned. Discovery's emotional beats always feel forced, and usually unearned.
    Morris
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    #20
    except for the Swarm of shuttles and pods and the R2D2 clones repairing enterprise, I thoroughly enjoyed it and I will miss it until next year!
    I was chuckling about the drones also I mean I do k now a little about Star trek but I was scratching ,my head about the Drones.
    then amoust all of thje action happening ship is probably going to blow up we need to move all of these people they stop.... then talk about there love and other feelings I was half expecting ( because of the stupid music playing for more feeling)r people to break out in song and dance like the older East Indian movies used to do .
    then again really why go to the future now that control was dead but I am thinking they did this so they could half ass explain things like why Spock never ever talked about his adopted sister and sure ok so they want to keep the tec away from every one.Also Georgio still is on the Discovery.did get me wrong I like her character but it seemed like they rushed the writing for this series with out thinking things through trying to please allot of people with all this useless information but all that being said ( I really wanted to post allot more but I dont think I have the weeks to do so) if you take away the above things I mentioned and just be a mindless drone watching the series and not notice things and just get caught up in the action it wasn't that bad but for me and what everyone else has said above this insults the very little intelligence I do have about Trek.
    like I mentioned in other post I think I have to watch this series like I used to watch TNG and do my best to drop things that I notice and to maybe walk away from the screen and go make a Sandwich when the long feeling secedes come on when there is a major thing about to happen like the ship about to blow up
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    #21
    Well, now....they have SO MANY directions they can go with how they ended it, but Let's review Some things:
    Rebecca Romijn is brilliant as #1
    Anson Mount NEEDS his own Pike Series(I think, he's getting it)

    Questions coming out of S2
    With Ash as head of S31 & The Kung-Fu Empress on DISCO in the future, where does that leave the Section 31 series?
    How does Pike feel about plowing head first to his destined fate, now that its set in stone?

    The ending wrapped DISCO up in a neat little bow. I think they had the scripts all locked in & expecting to not be renewed for a third run when they were green lit for a third season. It leaves our favorite pizza cutting ship in a nice, tight, little bubble, as to not screw up established canon.

    Emotionally, ROLLERCOASTER. Loved the the bits with Spock & Burnham. Goosebumps when Spock Finally dawned the Sci Blues & stepped onto the ENT bridge WITHOUT a beard.
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    #22
    I know this is going to amaze a few folks, being almost every week I complain about "She Who Shall Not Be Named" ruining this series, but this might be my favorite episode to date... even WITH many of the flaws previously mentioned. Allow me to explain.

    1. The action was very good. This episode was pretty much non-stop (except to get in a sappy "SWSNBN" scene or four).
    2. In my opinion, the episode was NOT single-focused, with a number of storylines culminating at the same time. A pretty darn good balance for me.
    3. Lots of Enterprise. It's beautiful. The uniforms are beautiful. The crew is awesome.
    4. I believe it left the door for a lot of possibilities for Star Trek's future.

    In a perfect world... OK, I have to chuckle at using the term "Perfect World"... the purists will get an Enterprise-centric show and those who have gravitated toward DISCO TREK will jump 950 years into the future and support that effort. Everybody wins. I cannot help but believe the show's ending, and of course, the beloved theme music at the end, points to just such an outcome.

    While there are things I could gripe about, I liked this episode so much I refuse to do so.

    Hit it.
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    #23
    I quite enjoyed this episode. Lets hope Disco. S3 is worth the wait.
    I also quite enjoyed the episode, as Saru said it so well.
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    #24
    Now, the casualsto review!

    The episode really pulled out a rabbit out of the hat with the ending. They've included overwhelming space battle, ground combat drama show, made Spock look less homeless and created some really nice effects on the suit. I had a blast watching it.

    Now, I think the end is really, really good and I think they're turning this into a merchandisable asset.

    I've heard that license owners are in discussions with CBS for the Picard series. The license owners said they don't want to make any connection between Discovery content and Picard (Patrick Stewart) since that would impact negatively into their sales. That's why it would be justifiable not to expect a S3, but a Picard pilot instead, having the discovery stuff gone.

    On the other hand, I don't mind having futuristic discovery assets and ships in STO.

    The story : Spoiler - they made the "great woman behind a great man" classic into a "great sister behind great brother", but this sort of gratitude and harmony brought into the story felt good.

    The best detail : when princess icecream explains how they need to both attack head on and flank a ship simultaneously in order to impact its shield bubble - first basics of shield mechanics in shield facings. I loved it.

    The worst part : The story had too much of a clear cut. Everything simply sorted itself out without any causal depth of the character choices. Section 31 is now getting good boy points, the control threat is gone, it's very tidy. Maybe too tidy.

    Worth mentioning: The jumping scenes of Mikeyspock (Burnham) in her suit are extremely similar to the Interstellar's time-space jumps from the anomaly in the last part of the movie. But nonetheless good.

    Discovery and Interstellar bare some traits in common. They both start like sheite, they grow on you, they hit and miss, but eventually if you're patient enough, they put on quite a performance and impress you, as a captivated and indulgent audience. Some details really make up for the gaps in consistency, but that's more of a good save than a bad design.

    Discovery S2 delivered. Worth seeing with Netflix.
    Truth is uncomfortable most of the times. That's why you gotta face it every time.

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    #25
    i am curious how the Galaxy Looks 950 years in the future, if the Federation is still around. Hell I'm curious if its set in just the Milky Way, maybe the Federation expanded to other nearby Galaxies.
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    #26
    I've heard that license owners are in discussions with CBS for the Picard series. The license owners said they don't want to make any connection between Discovery content and Picard (Patrick Stewart) since that would impact negatively into their sales. That's why it would be justifiable not to expect a S3, but a Picard pilot instead, having the discovery stuff gone.
    What is your source on this? I’ve never heard this from a legitimate source.

    Never-mind, I can guess your source. I wouldn’t get my news from Nerdorotic. His “sources” or “insiders” never seem to pan out, probably because they don’t exist.
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    #27
    The story : Spoiler - they made the "great woman behind a great man" classic into a "great sister behind great brother", but this sort of gratitude and harmony brought into the story felt good.

    The best detail : when princess icecream explains how they need to both attack head on and flank a ship simultaneously in order to impact its shield bubble - first basics of shield mechanics in shield facings. I loved it.
    Very well said! And yes the rabbit was fitting as well. Thumbs up

    i am curious how the Galaxy Looks 950 years in the future, if the Federation is still around. Hell I'm curious if its set in just the Milky Way, maybe the Federation expanded to other nearby Galaxies.
    Well in theory while the tech maybe 950 years dated, yet the spore drive is still likely quite advanced in any period, if fact possibly the one or two remaining advantages aside from the suit & time crystal; aside from perhaps a dedicated & loyal crew working toward a common goal based of Federation principles hopefully maintained. Last week I pointed out Jayneway reminded Kim the Federation of the 23rd or earlier operated differently than those Officer's in the 24th. So we'll have to see how they rise to the challenge for sure! And I too am also very interested to see what this future Galaxy looks like or if we'll see more than one. Suspicious Thumbs up
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    #28
    Meh, it had some good scenes, but it also had magic blast doors and super Burnham, and witnessed the most unexpected plot twist I have ever seen.
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    #29
    Well I guess I was right in the fact it was really predictable who the Red Angel was going to be in the end. It was Micheal all along!

    I do quite like the subtle nod to Voyager, with the Enterprise having a shuttle bay that is bigger on the inside, and has a whole armada of shuttle and pods to throw at the enemy.

    Overall the second season suffers from the same problem the first season had. The over all state of the galaxy is predictable at the end, since everything has to be alright for TOS and the other shows to happen. This problem could've easily been rectified if it was already set in the future or it was another alternate universe.

    It isn't all bad though as I did enjoy the ending. Not because it ended, but because of the Enterprise scene. I really do hope that CBS can see how much Pike is loved by both groups of the Trek fandom. Pike has been such a great Star Trek Captain this season that I just want more of him. To me he has all the traits that make a great series Captain like Picard, Sisko, or Janeway. With the Orville Season 2 regularly getting 5.6 mil views. CBS are sitting on a goldmine of a slower paced Star Trek show with Pike's Enterprise. And whilst I still would like a proper series set after Nemesis, Anson Mount's and Ethan Peck's performance has been phenomenal to warrant a good series with them as Pike and Spock. It just shows how actual good characters can change people's minds!
    Can you give me your source on the Orville ratings? I've been trying to find them but they are all over the place. I'm looking for the C+3 18-49 ratings since those are the ones that really matter.
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    #30
    I'm looking for the C+3 18-49 ratings since those are the ones that really matter.
    Why are you only interested in those ratings? Very ageist.