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[Spoiler] - Picard S1-E01 - Remembrance

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Petrarch, Wed 22 Jan, 2020 4:33 PM
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View Poll Results: What did you think of Remembrance?

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    33 84.62%
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    #1
    Name:  startrek-picard-banner-700x303.jpg
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    Episode Discussion

    "Remembrance"

    US Airdate: 23/01/2020 (CBS All Access)
    International: 24/01/2020 (Amazon Prime)


    This thread is for the pre and post discussion of the pilot episode "Remembrance" - this will be a spoiler filled discussion so if you've found your way past the warnings in the activity stream and the spoiler tag on the thread, this is your last chance to turn back, or at least it will be at the end of this first post. You have been warned!

    Remembrance is the first episode and marks the beginning of the 10 episode strong first series.
    Petrarch
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    #2
    Ok ok... I know it is not technically on topic... but I just have to say it...

    SQUEEEEEEEEE!

    I can't wait Smile
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    #3
    I accidently stumbled over a couple of pieces of info when I was hunting down the episode titles - this doesn't give away much, if anything, regarding the overall plot, nor can I vouch for it being real or fake, but are more a background bit for why things are as they are. I'll spoiler the spoiler since it won't be airing until tonight.

    Federation Starships -
    Initially, no Federation vessels are seen.... except for the Enterprise-D.


    Why Picard is no longer Starfleet -
    Mentioned in the tie in comic, a rescue fleet was under construction, intended to evacuate the Romulans out of the path of the supernova. When Utopia Planitia was attacked in "Children of Mars", the in progress fleet was wrecked. The Federation subsequently cancelled the rescue op. Picard demanded they stick to the plan, but when the cancellation stood, he made good on a previous threat to resign.
    Petrarch
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    #4
    this show is intense! call outs to Picard's past are GREAT!! ugh why couldn't cbs just release the entire season at once?! I NEED TO BINGE WATCH!! LOL
    DylanErikson
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    #5
    I liked it - Im not 100% sure about it yet though (always an issue with a multiple episode story arc... have to see where they are going with it and if they have a good ending) - but so far, pretty great!

    Much more reboot star trek than next generation (I guess it shows my age, but I would love more classic next gen...).

    Production values were amazing though, movie quality.

    Ps - I guess someone jumped the gun in Canada and made it available on Crave (streaming service) a bit too early. I watched it all legal like.
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    #6
    Oh well, all I will say is goosebumps and feels all the way through, loved the way they set it up and linked it to Picard's past. the only issue I have now is waiting a week for the next one.
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    #7
    I went into this knowing what to expect, due to the early reviews, Sir Patrick's interviews, and what we've already experienced with Discovery. As I was led to believe, the writing wasn't the best, but I couldn't help but be drawn in by Sir Patrick's performance. I enjoyed this episode, and am hopeful for how the rest of this season will turn out! I just wish that CBS would drop full seasons, like Netflix does. It really sucks having to wait a week between episodes....or waiting 10 weeks to binge the entire season!
    Morris
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    #8
     –  Last edited by DeWolfe; Fri 24 Jan, 2020 12:42 AM.
    Incoming Rant

    Okay.

    1. Romulans had a Star Empire, didn't that mean they had a lot of ships. I mean enough to relocate the populous that was in danger from the hobus star, to another Romulan sector/system.

    2. The laws were decided long ago in 'measure of a man' that androids or ("Synthetics") had rights. I thought the only thing left on debate about that was Holo programs rights.

    3. Data had a daughter. Lal was his daughter. I refuse to believe he would start making paintings about a new one and not continue dedicating to her, especially with Lal being in his head after the engram integration he did. Picard says, "data always wanted a daughter." I would think Data would consider Lal as having accomplished that. He wasn't one to just move on. Still holding mementos of Tasha Yar.

    4. Leaving Starfleet. Jean-Luc Picard would have spent entirely himself before leaving. Hell, once he went to Starfleet Command directly and uncovered an alien conspiracy and killed the infestation. He saved the Baku. He would certainly have drummed enough support that even if Starfleet didn't back it. The Fleet itself would.

    5. Romulan Xenomorphs... Romulan Acid Blood? What?!?!

    6. Romulans have a Borg cube. Even in STO this one annoys me. I refuse to believe these cubes can be commandeered like this, or at the least have triggered an emergency signal for a Borg armada to ensure no one assimilates 'their' technology. Seems like something they'd fight to the last cube to stop.

    7. That interview. Star Trek isn't like real life. Picard's accomplishments aren't few and far between. No way would a reporter worth their salt whom could get an interview with the man. Knowing he never did interviews would poke the bear like that. He saved the Earth, the Solar System, the Federation and the Galaxy before... Really? Someone so well known, so admired, has so little influence? That they can be convinced to interview with a reporter for a hit and run piece.

    8. Logic Leap. I'm at a loss... How in the heck did Jean-Luc deduce this girl was an Android, when all he did was have a dream, see a painting and remember its name.

    9. What was that casual conversation at the end with the Romulan and the other Darj. These aren't humans. Romulans are a different culture, but that was like watching a human with another human.

    10. Nevermind. Its okay as a show but its not Star Trek, well to me. They tell me its the prime universe but its not. I think for my own sanity I will continue believing the prime universe is gone, or at least untouchable in another alternate timeline. That all these shows, are just mutations of a different timeline all springing from First Contact where the Borg and Enterprise changed events in a Butterfly Effect sort of thing.


    tl;dr Good Show, not Star Trek for me.

    Rayne Quote
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    #9
    After watching that I'm interested in seeing where they're going to go with this.

    I do have to admit, I'm wondering if they'll tie the synthetic thing into Control maybe, link it with Discovery (I know the answer is probably not, but it'd be interesting if they did)
    ChrisWilkinson
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    #10
    3. Data had a daughter. Lal was his daughter. I refuse to believe he would start making paintings about a new one and not continue dedicating to her, especially with Lal being in his head after the engram integration he did. Picard says, "data always wanted a daughter." I would think Data would consider Lal as having accomplished that. He wasn't one to just move on. Still holding mementos of Tasha Yar.
    In regards to this point at least, Data said in TNG over a year after Lal died that he wanted to procreate again

    Noram
    "There's a point where we needed to stop and we have clearly passed it. But let's keep going and see what happens..."
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    #11
    I'm afraid that I'll have to agree with DeWolfie. As a Star Trek episode, it just didn't grab me. I went in wanting to like it. But... I just didn't.
    If I viewed it as a non-ST show, I'd probably like it.

    I'm sorry.
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    #12
    In regards to this point at least, Data said in TNG over a year after Lal died that he wanted to procreate again
    Hmm... I don't recall that but I'm willing to defer as it has been a while since I watched TNG.
    Overall, how did you feel about the show?

    Rayne Quote
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    #13
    Incoming Rant

    Okay.

    1. Romulans had a Star Empire, didn't that mean they had a lot of ships. I mean enough to relocate the populous that was in danger from the hobus star, to another Romulan sector/system.

    2. The laws were decided long ago in 'measure of a man' that androids or ("Synthetics") had rights. I thought the only thing left on debate about that was Holo programs rights.

    3. Data had a daughter. Lal was his daughter. I refuse to believe he would start making paintings about a new one and not continue dedicating to her, especially with Lal being in his head after the engram integration he did. Picard says, "data always wanted a daughter." I would think Data would consider Lal as having accomplished that. He wasn't one to just move on. Still holding mementos of Tasha Yar.

    4. Leaving Starfleet. Jean-Luc Picard would have spent entirely himself before leaving. Hell, once he went to Starfleet Command directly and uncovered an alien conspiracy and killed the infestation. He saved the Baku. He would certainly have drummed enough support that even if Starfleet didn't back it. The Fleet itself would.

    5. Romulan Xenomorphs... Romulan Acid Blood? What?!?!

    6. Romulans have a Borg cube. Even in STO this one annoys me. I refuse to believe these cubes can be commandeered like this, or at the least have triggered an emergency signal for a Borg armada to ensure no one assimilates 'their' technology. Seems like something they'd fight to the last cube to stop.

    7. That interview. Star Trek isn't like real life. Picard's accomplishments aren't few and far between. No way would a reporter worth their salt whom could get an interview with the man. Knowing he never did interviews would poke the bear like that. He saved the Earth, the Solar System, the Federation and the Galaxy before... Really? Someone so well known, so admired, has so little influence? That they can be convinced to interview with a reporter for a hit and run piece.

    8. Logic Leap. I'm at a loss... How in the heck did Jean-Luc deduce this girl was an Android, when all he did was have a dream, see a painting and remember its name.

    9. What was that casual conversation at the end with the Romulan and the other Darj. These aren't humans. Romulans are a different culture, but that was like watching a human with another human.

    10. Nevermind. Its okay as a show but its not Star Trek, well to me. They tell me its the prime universe but its not. I think for my own sanity I will continue believing the prime universe is gone, or at least untouchable in another alternate timeline. That all these shows, are just mutations of a different timeline all springing from First Contact where the Borg and Enterprise changed events in a Butterfly Effect sort of thing.


    tl;dr Good Show, not Star Trek for me.
    I agree with most of your points.The science often won't make sense. The writing will be generally weak and overly dramatic. We've learned all of this from two seasons of Discovery.

    That being said, I'm trying not to let that ruin my enjoyment of seeing Jean Luc Picard in action again. As with Discovery, I turn my brain off and enjoy the show. If things get really bad, I don't have to watch. I hope that it doesn't come to that...I don't think that it will. The first episode, even with its shortcomings, has engaged my interest.

    Incoming rant of my own...

    Star Trek use to portray the Federation as a utopian society. The Federation represented the hope for what humanity was capable of...what it could become. Commentary on contemporary societal issues were generally addressed through interactions with other civilizations encountered through humanity's continuing exploration of space. That maintained the hope for humanity's future. Current iterations of Star Trek portray a future where humanity is the same as today. While there's a story to be told in that, it's darker and less hopeful. If you think about it, it's much less hopeful considering that almost 400 years have passed. Humanity is better off technologically, but at our core, we're not much different than we are now. While it might make for dramatic storytelling, and I emphasize MIGHT, it isn't true to the original vision for Star Trek. Sadly, given the current media landscape, I don't see a return to that original vision for Star Trek anytime soon.
    Morris
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    #14
    I mean, from the conversation between the scientist and Picard, what I understood was that Picard came to a theory that Maddox could've used an old neural network scan of his to create a daughter, not that Data created another daughter. Especially since he was dead. That's what I understood from their conversation.

    I went into this open minded and accepting the fact that Star Trek has now moved on to a more story-telling and action franchise (I thank Discovery especially for this). However, I like the pilot and how they've linked it to his past. And why he chose to resign from Starfleet - those all things really seem true to the character of Picard. He did resign once already during Star Trek Insurrection when he believed Starfleet was being irrational as well. I feel the way they linked everything as a "to set the pieces into why Picard and the universe is like this currently in the state that it is in" well.

    Kinda silly how Daj #1 already died and the feeds couldn't even pick up explosions, like what?

    I guess I'm naturally more curious and accepting of this because what happend after Nemesis is something truly to explore.
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    #15
    I really liked it. Felt like the logical step forward for the TNG era crew in so much as the world around them has changed but get some of them still want to uphold the values they always lived by and enforced.

    1) the Romulan empire has just fought in the Dominion Warc not to long ago so I take that to mean they probably lost a lot of ships. Plus they were always quite a militaristic empire with lots of sneaky shot ships etc so it’s not hard to guess they maybe didn’t have as many big vessels like the Galaxy class capable of mass evacuation of this scale.

    2) the population at risk was several billion. Even with stuff like a Galaxy class capable of moving 10,000 people at once you can still only move around a billion people within one year (people have run the maths on this in a few places). And this was a supernova so it’s going to need people moved a long way from it, not just the next planet. As in the actual planning and negotiation of where the heck you move a billion refugees to (are other worlds just going to accept that? Look at the real world migrant situations for answers) and you’ve got even less time. Building an entire fleet was probably the only sensible option.

    3) TNG set out that Data was considered a real person but a lot could change in the intervening years. Clearly the Synthetics were not as advanced and so there could be all manner of reasons why they’re rising up. I’m seeing tones of a Blade Runner here and the replicants. I strongly suspect they used Borg tech as part of the process, or some other questionable means.
    Whatever it adds an interesting bit of political upheaval to the mix as if dealing with a galactic emergency wasn’t bad enough.

    4) Picard has always stood up for what he thought was right. He’s resigned before in Insurrection when the Federation was going against its own principles; I have no doubt he’d do the same if he felt they were just giving up on rescuing billions of lives. This are also adds weight to why Nero was so utterly hell bent on revenge in the reboot film; if Starfleet has just given up and left his people to die no wonder he was upset. He blamed Spock for failing to do the blast but Starfleet for failing to rescue people.

    5) Romulan having a bagged up cube is not too unrealistic tbh. We know from TNG you can disconnect both ships and drones from the hive. And Voyager showed it’s possible too plus that you can hide in plain sight inside a Borg ship too stuffy them. Hardly a stretch to think that the highly militaristic Romulan Tal Shiar would be willing to acquire a cube for experiments.
    SulMatuul
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