[Petrarch]

Episode Discussion

"Maps and Legends"

US Airdate: 30/01/2020 (CBS All Access)
International: 31/01/2020 (Amazon Prime)

This thread is for the pre and post discussion of the second episode "Maps and Legends" - this will be a spoiler filled discussion so if you've found your way past the warnings in the activity stream and the spoiler tag on the thread, this is your last chance to turn back, or at least it will be at the end of this first post. You have been warned!

Maps and Legends is episode 2 of 10. (Borg puns not intended...)

[Curzon Peers]

Well that was dull. Nothing really happened; most of the episode was just them setting up their vast sinister conspiracy and the Romulan Illuminati is a bit much for my tastes. Tantalizing us with mystery is all fine and good, but we haven't even met the crew yet which makes the front-loading of the plot a bit annoying. Having looked at the cast list, the two Romulans with Picard we've been getting to know probably aren't even going to be important either.

[aceman67]

the two Romulans with Picard

Read the Picard Countdown comic, they are featured heavily and are greatly expanded upon.

Romulan Illuminati

Conspiracy, intrigue, and Mystery is pretty much the Romulan's shtick.

[Setalia]

So if that “Romulan Illuminati” (I'm not sure how to spell what they were called) want to kill all artificial life, and they've existed for so long, why did they not go after Data (and Lore) during TNG?

[Bridger]

Read the Picard Countdown comic, they are featured heavily and are greatly expanded upon.

You can ignore everything from comics, since it is not canon.

[Arno12]

You can ignore everything from comics, since it is not canon.

Yeah Pretty much this, though to be fair this prequel comic stays well away from anything spoilery to the main plot to picard, just the origin of 2 of the characters and their background.

[Curzon Peers]

Canon or not, it's usually not a good idea to have required reading for a show. Regardless I was commenting on the fact we've spent a fair deal of time seeing these two, but it doesn't look like they're main cast, so I worry they may end up being inconsequential to this story, and yet we haven't seen half of the people who ARE.

Conspiracy, intrigue, and Mystery is pretty much the Romulan's shtick.

Oh I get that. it already makes the Romulans a good choice for the antagonists, but I think a group of Romulans was enough without making a super secret service that the secret service speaks about only in whispers. Has the same feel as end of the world plots in that they're cranking the stakes up all the way, father than they need to be for dramatic effect.

So if that “Romulan Illuminati” (I'm not sure how to spell what they were called) want to kill all artificial life, and they've existed for so long, why did they not go after Data (and Lore) during TNG?

I had that thought as well. and how is it B4 is still in the Lab with them around?

[Jestersmith]

This episode was slow and steady not giving a lot away but touching on potential plot points to come, not as good as the 1st episode but I suspect will have laid a foundation for something in the series.

I particularly like the hologram of the ship's at sf command.

[Bridger]

Yeap that is what I remember the Federation to be, at the risk of falling apart when it comes to help a former Enemy looking back at the explosion of Praxis, or the Cardassians.

Not to mention the racism shown by the workers at Utopia Planitia against artificial lifeforms the Federation has come indeed a long way.

[Solace]

Interesting episode.. I'm really curious about the

Zhat Vash and their infiltration of starfleet command

.. also from what we saw of the Borg drones in that episode, I'm glad that they haven't departed too much from their look in VOY and FC and ENT although I suspect that Cube isn't as dead as the Romulans think!

Also I really appreciated the small nod to Picards history aboard the Stargazer when he saw what I presume is his old CMO.

[Bridger]

BTW, I loved the Science in this Episode:

So the Romulan pulls out her magic toy and looks back into the past, but than the Super Tal'shiar have erased everything by flooding the room with Anti-Leptons so how could she look back in time in the first place.

[Solace]

BTW, I loved the Science in this Episode:

So the Romulan pulls out her magic toy and looks back into the past, but than the Super Tal'shiar have erased everything by flooding the room with Anti-Leptons so how could she look back in time in the first place.

She's Ex-Tal Shiar herself, so she would have some knowledge of how to circumvent their methods, also its a plot device.

[Curzon Peers]

I suspect that Cube isn't as dead as the Romulans think!

They do have that warning badge thing everyone has to wear, and the long safety speech.

Did anyone else get a kick out of the "Days since last assimilation" sign? It's got 5000 some days on it, so they've had this cube for a while.

[Morris]

Yeap that is what I remember the Federation to be, at the risk of falling apart when it comes to help a former Enemy looking back at the explosion of Praxis, or the Cardassians.

Not to mention the racism shown by the workers at Utopia Planitia against artificial lifeforms the Federation has come indeed a long way.

BTW, I loved the Science in this Episode:

So the Romulan pulls out her magic toy and looks back into the past, but than the Super Tal'shiar have erased everything by flooding the room with Anti-Leptons so how could she look back in time in the first place.

Bad Robot/ Secret Hideout is the common poison shared by new Star Wars and new Star Trek. They are a big money, super flashy production company, but they have no respect for the viewers of their content. They don't have the appreciation for science fiction...especially established sci-fi franchises...that they should...that true fans of those franchises would!

It's become apparent, from Star Wars and Star Trek, that they aren't interested in sci-fi that has a basis in understood science, or at least the canon of the franchise. To them, science is magic, because any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic...Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law. A little bit of knowledge is a bad thing. It appears that they are familiar with this quote, that they've adapted it to mean that they can freely use magical plot devices to help move along whatever story it is that they are trying to tell, and that we'll accept it as reasonably believable science in the context of their story. This seems to be true for a number of fans, especially the younger fans of these franchises. These properties aren't being made for established Star Wars and Star Trek fans. They're being made to attract new fans...younger people who are familiar with Star Wars and Star Trek by name only. This isn't meant as a slam to fans who enjoy this new content. This is only an editorial...my opinion/ interpretation of what's been happening to the franchises that I love.

With all of that said, obviously I agree with you Bridger. As I've said in previous Discovery and PIcard reviews, these new shows can be sort of watchable if I turn my brain off. Doing so, changes these shows from Star Trek into generic sci-fi fantasy shows, but it is less likely to bother me as much. If I think about it, like I am now while writing this commentary, it angers me how insulting these new versions are to those original stories, to us, the fans, and to everyone's intelligence. It wouldn't be difficult at all to have someone with a basic understanding of the source material to edit the scripts before going to production. They would remove the magical insults and replace them with scientifically plausible plot devices. If done well, they'd still draw in whatever new fans they are already drawing in, but they would retain a healthy and happy fanbase from the original franchises! On the path that they are on, the established fans have already left, or are considering leaving. This is not a good business model. Many of us who've stayed this long, have been staying to support more Star Trek movies and television, but I'm beginning to believe that's the wrong move. We're just getting more bad content. CBS/ VIACOM/ PARAMOUNT....whoever the hell they are, need to understand that what they've been supporting isn't Star Trek, at least not the Star Trek that Gene Roddenberry envisioned. In truth, it doesn't have to be, but it should at least try to keep the heart of what made Star Trek, Star Trek.

[Pedigo]

When did Starfleet get so damned evil?! Oh wait...