communications relay login

Loot Boxes - BBC reports Lords are calling for immediate regulations

Started By:
darthnovawave, Thu 02 Jul, 2020 2:06 PM
Views:
441
Replies:
8
  1. Personnel Officer

    • Stepping Forward
      Uncommon (25 Points)

      Going from Clearance Level 3 to Clearance Level 4

      Unlocked Fri 21 Feb, 2020 5:00 PM

    • Dean’s List
      Uncommon (25 Points)

      Pass all three Academy exams

      Unlocked Mon 06 Jan, 2020 6:03 PM

    • Paragon of Duty
      Uncommon (25 Points)

      Sign three roll calls in a row

      Unlocked Thu 01 Mar, 2018 1:01 AM

    • Firestarter
      Common (10 Points)

      Start a new forum topic

      Grandfathered

    • tlhIngan SuvwI'
      Common (10 Points)

      Be a member of the House of Kular

      Unlocked Fri 01 Dec, 2017 2:01 AM

    • Starfleet's Finest
      Common (10 Points)

      Be a member of Starfleet Operations

      Unlocked Tue 20 Dec, 2016 2:09 AM

    ACHV. Points
    245
    Reputation
    2
    Join Date
    Dec 20 2016
    Posts
    174
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    0
    • Users who disliked
    • None
    3
    • Users who liked
    • Sul-Matuul
    • Bridger
    • Petrarch
    Reply With QuoteQuote
    #1
    Just saw on the BBC News site that the UK is starting to discuss cracking down on the use of loot boxes in games, calling them a form of gambling. Thought I'd share a link to the story since if this moves forward it could impact many of the games this group participates in and might eventually impact those of us outside the UK as well depending on how all this plays out.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53253195
    darthnovawave Darthnovawave Medals
  2. Bronze Contributor

    • Bronze Contributor
      Uncommon (25 Points)

      Subscribe to a monthly Bronze Subscription

      Unlocked Fri 03 Jul, 2020 11:01 PM

    • Electorate
      Common (10 Points)

      Vote in a forum poll

      Unlocked Wed 12 Dec, 2018 12:01 PM

    • My 2 Cents
      Common (10 Points)

      Post in a forum topic

      Unlocked Tue 13 Nov, 2018 11:00 PM

    • Firestarter
      Common (10 Points)

      Start a new forum topic

      Unlocked Tue 13 Nov, 2018 11:00 PM

    • Petty Officer 3rd Class
      Common (10 Points)

      Receive the rank of Petty Officer 3rd Class

      Unlocked Tue 13 Nov, 2018 10:29 PM

    • Crewman
      Common (10 Points)

      Receive the rank of Crewman

      Unlocked Tue 13 Nov, 2018 10:29 PM

    ACHV. Points
    205
    Reputation
    3
    Join Date
    Nov 13 2018
    Posts
    162
    Location
    Southport, UK
    0
    • Users who disliked
    • None
    0
    • Users who liked
    • None
    Reply With QuoteQuote
    #2
    Its an interesting situation to follow, alot of countries have been vocal about it in the last couple of years.
    Essentially though, gambling laws cannot apply to loot boxes because you don't purchase or open them with money. Game publishers get around the legalities of gambling in games by using an intermediary currency between the users wallet and the gambling/loot-box/chance mechanics ingame. In STO's case this is Zen, mobile games use gems and such like, EVE Online uses Plex, SWTOR uses Cartel Coins.


    Ricwin

  3. Head of Star Trek Online

    • ...and On and On
      Very Rare (100 Points)

      Reach five-thousand posts on the forums

      Unlocked Mon 01 Oct, 2018 10:02 PM

    • Gold Contributor
      Very Rare (100 Points)

      Subscribe to a monthly Gold Subscription

      Unlocked Tue 10 Jan, 2017 4:00 PM

    • Highly Decorated
      Very Rare (100 Points)

      Receive every medal the UFP has to offer

      Unlocked Sat 25 Mar, 2017 10:00 PM

    • Admiral
      Rare (50 Points)

      Receive a promotion to the rank of Admiral

      Unlocked Sun 24 Sep, 2017 7:45 AM

    • To Boldly Go On and On
      Rare (50 Points)

      Reach one-thousand posts on the forums

      Grandfathered

    • Dean’s List
      Uncommon (25 Points)

      Pass all three Academy exams

      Unlocked Wed 07 Jan, 2015 2:21 AM

    ACHV. Points
    1585
    Reputation
    10
    Join Date
    Oct 18 2013
    Posts
    6,799
    Location
    Austria
    0
    • Users who disliked
    • None
    6
    • Users who liked
    • Midwan
    • Sul-Matuul
    • WelshAvenger
    • Arno12
    • darthnovawave
    • Morris
    Reply With QuoteQuote
    #3
    You buy Zen with money in the same way you buy chips in the casino with money.
    Bridger
    Bridger Medals
    “He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes;
    he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever” ~ Chinese Proverb
    • Electorate
      Common (10 Points)

      Vote in a forum poll

      Unlocked Thu 30 Apr, 2020 7:06 AM

    • My 2 Cents
      Common (10 Points)

      Post in a forum topic

      Unlocked Wed 15 Apr, 2020 7:00 PM

    • Firestarter
      Common (10 Points)

      Start a new forum topic

      Unlocked Wed 15 Apr, 2020 7:00 PM

    • Petty Officer 3rd Class
      Common (10 Points)

      Receive the rank of Petty Officer 3rd Class

      Unlocked Wed 15 Apr, 2020 6:02 PM

    • Crewman
      Common (10 Points)

      Receive the rank of Crewman

      Unlocked Wed 15 Apr, 2020 6:02 PM

    • Affectionate
      Common (10 Points)

      Give positive reputation ten times to other users

      Unlocked Wed 20 May, 2020 8:00 PM

    ACHV. Points
    130
    Reputation
    1
    Join Date
    Apr 15 2020
    Posts
    132
    Location
    Clownworld
    0
    • Users who disliked
    • None
    3
    • Users who liked
    • darthnovawave
    • Sul-Matuul
    • Bridger
    Reply With QuoteQuote
    #4
    The united Kingdom isn't the first country... In West Taiwan Developer have to show the exact chances on getting what from a "suprise mechanic" and you can only open a certain number of them each day (gambling is a problem of East Asians in general as they have cultural a different stance to it than westerners). In the Netherlands and Belgium Lootboxes are already illegal. Even the US is investigating them!

    Loot boxes are gambling no matter in which way one might suggar code them or hide them behind intermediary currency.
  4. Head of Community Administration

    • Set Phasers To Frag
      Very Rare (100 Points)

      Win an Annual Elite Force Tournament

      Unlocked Sun 28 Aug, 2016 7:24 PM

    • Civilian
      Rare (50 Points)

      Leave Starfleet for a career in the Federation Government

      Unlocked Tue 12 Jul, 2016 6:37 PM

    • Admiral
      Rare (50 Points)

      Receive a promotion to the rank of Admiral

      Unlocked Sat 17 Dec, 2016 10:31 PM

    • To Boldly Go On and On
      Rare (50 Points)

      Reach one-thousand posts on the forums

      Unlocked Thu 22 Sep, 2016 9:00 AM

    • Constable
      Rare (50 Points)

      Be Federation Administrative Bureau Commanding Officer

      Unlocked Thu 12 May, 2016 7:51 PM

    • Loudmouth
      Rare (50 Points)

      Appeared at least ten times on the Midas Array Podcast

      Unlocked Wed 12 Oct, 2016 9:07 PM

    ACHV. Points
    1490
    Reputation
    10
    Join Date
    Mar 09 2012
    Posts
    2,236
    Location
    United Kingdom
    0
    • Users who disliked
    • None
    3
    • Users who liked
    • darthnovawave
    • Sul-Matuul
    • Bridger
    Reply With QuoteQuote
    #5
    Loot boxes are essentially like an online scratch card. You don't know what you will get until you open it so I have always considered it be a form of gambling. Scratch cards are already regulated here in the UK i.e have to be at least 16 etc.

    Seems about time that UK regulation caught up with the current reality of the 21st century gambling.
    Jonathan
    Jonathan Medals
  5. Fleet Admiral

    • Commendation
      Commendation (150 Points)

      Awarded during the UFP Award Ceremony to those who go above and beyond for the community

      Unlocked Sat 29 Jun, 2019 9:56 PM

    • Set Phasers To Frag
      Very Rare (100 Points)

      Win an Annual Elite Force Tournament

      Unlocked Sun 28 Aug, 2016 7:24 PM

    • Top Brass
      Very Rare (100 Points)

      Reach the highest Starfleet Rank

      Unlocked Sat 17 Dec, 2016 10:30 PM

    • Highly Decorated
      Very Rare (100 Points)

      Receive every medal the UFP has to offer

      Unlocked Sun 27 Mar, 2016 2:00 PM

    • To Infinity and Beyond
      Very Rare (100 Points)

      Reach ten-thousand posts on the forums

      Grandfathered

    • Hearthstone Tournament Winner
      Very Rare (100 Points)

      Win the annual Hearthstone Tournament

      Unlocked Mon 04 Jul, 2016 6:08 PM

    ACHV. Points
    2195
    Reputation
    10
    Join Date
    Jan 25 2012
    Posts
    12,812
    Location
    Unimatrix 01
    0
    • Users who disliked
    • None
    4
    • Users who liked
    • darthnovawave
    • Bridger
    • Sul-Matuul
    • Taku
    Reply With QuoteQuote
    #6
    It doesn't matter if an intermediary currency is used, just as Bridger has said, in a casino, you use chips, which you buy with money, and chips are an intermediary currency. The chips themselves only hold a value in the casino, just as Zen only holds value in certain games, the only difference being that you can trade in chips for money.

    Can you open lootboxes in games without real money? In some, sure, like STO you can grind out dilithium to get Zen to get keys. You could grind out EC to buy keys, but in this case, someone would have had to have bought the keys in the first place for them to exist on the market, unless we assume they have all be bought using free dilithium.

    Look at GTA Online, which has a casino, this casino can't be used by players in certain countries because of gambling laws. There is no need to use real money in the casino, you can play the games with money you earn in game, yet because you have the option to purchase real money, it means that it is possible to gamble real money away for fake money.

    Even without the real money aspect, lootboxes are still gambling, if you get to open them free, you are still paying with your time, and potentially being shown adverts. Am I against lootboxes? Yes, they clearly prey on peoples desire to get the big ticket item, no one is going to open a single lootbox and be happy with a single XP boost, it doesn't hold the same value.
  6. Quartermaster

    • To Boldly Go On and On
      Rare (50 Points)

      Reach one-thousand posts on the forums

      Unlocked Mon 29 Apr, 2019 8:00 PM

    • Dean’s List
      Uncommon (25 Points)

      Pass all three Academy exams

      Unlocked Sun 01 Oct, 2017 6:01 PM

    • Well Respected
      Uncommon (25 Points)

      Reach reputation tier 6

      Unlocked Mon 03 Dec, 2018 11:01 PM

    • Eternal Servitude!
      Uncommon (25 Points)

      Be a registered user for five years

      Unlocked Thu 04 Oct, 2018 4:05 AM

    • Commander
      Uncommon (25 Points)

      Receive a promotion to the rank of Commander

      Unlocked Sat 29 Jun, 2019 9:56 PM

    • Stepping Forward
      Uncommon (25 Points)

      Going from Clearance Level 3 to Clearance Level 4

      Unlocked Sat 29 Sep, 2018 1:28 PM

    ACHV. Points
    495
    Reputation
    10
    Join Date
    Oct 03 2013
    Posts
    1,616
    Location
    Gamma Quadrant, Sector 4
    0
    • Users who disliked
    • None
    3
    • Users who liked
    • Taku
    • darthnovawave
    • Bridger
    Reply With QuoteQuote
    #7
    Game publishers get around the legalities of gambling in games by using an intermediary currency between the users wallet and the gambling/loot-box/chance mechanics ingame. In STO's case this is Zen
    In my view this makes the whole situation worse because it's adding in a disconnect between the lootbox itself and the real world value in cash that you spend on it. For any game where a child (or even someone older with poor willpower and financial control) is playing and going to encounter these lootbox mechanics it makes it very easy to loose track of spending; or fail to appreciate the cost.

    The House of Lords are absolutely correct; if it looks like gambling then it should be considered gambling by law. And they are also correct in that the law is too far behind current trends to be of use in these situations; it needs to be updated to account for the newer technology allowing for gambling online and in games etc.
    SulMatuul
    SulMatuul Medals
  7. Petty Officer 2nd Class
    Petty Officer 2nd Class

    Silver Contributor

    • Silver Contributor
      Rare (50 Points)

      Subscribe to a monthly Silver Subscription

      Unlocked Sun 28 Jun, 2020 3:01 PM

    • Bronze Contributor
      Uncommon (25 Points)

      Subscribe to a monthly Bronze Subscription

      Unlocked Sun 28 Jun, 2020 3:01 PM

    • Tour of Duty
      Uncommon (25 Points)

      RSVP to ten events via the Events System

      Unlocked Sun 26 Apr, 2020 12:01 PM

    • Paragon of Duty
      Uncommon (25 Points)

      Sign three roll calls in a row

      Unlocked Mon 02 Mar, 2020 12:01 PM

    • Electorate
      Common (10 Points)

      Vote in a forum poll

      Unlocked Mon 02 Dec, 2019 3:03 PM

    • My 2 Cents
      Common (10 Points)

      Post in a forum topic

      Unlocked Mon 09 Sep, 2019 3:04 PM

    ACHV. Points
    295
    Reputation
    5
    Join Date
    Sep 09 2019
    Posts
    341
    Location
    Canada
    0
    • Users who disliked
    • None
    2
    • Users who liked
    • Bridger
    • Sul-Matuul
    Reply With QuoteQuote
    #8
    In my view this makes the whole situation worse because it's adding in a disconnect between the lootbox itself and the real world value in cash that you spend on it. For any game where a child (or even someone older with poor willpower and financial control) is playing and going to encounter these lootbox mechanics it makes it very easy to loose track of spending; or fail to appreciate the cost.

    The House of Lords are absolutely correct; if it looks like gambling then it should be considered gambling by law. And they are also correct in that the law is too far behind current trends to be of use in these situations; it needs to be updated to account for the newer technology allowing for gambling online and in games etc.
    100% agree on both counts.
    • Rear Admiral
      Rare (50 Points)

      Receive a promotion to the rank of Rear Admiral

      Unlocked Sat 27 Jun, 2020 9:08 PM

    • Dean’s List
      Uncommon (25 Points)

      Pass all three Academy exams

      Unlocked Wed 02 Aug, 2017 1:02 PM

    • Part of the Furniture
      Common (10 Points)

      Be a registered user for two years

      Unlocked Thu 01 Aug, 2019 4:04 AM

    • tlhIngan SuvwI'
      Common (10 Points)

      Be a member of the House of Kular

      Unlocked Tue 12 Feb, 2019 12:02 PM

    • Dedicated
      Rare (50 Points)

      Volunteer for 1+ year

      Unlocked 1 Week Ago

    • To Boldly Go On and On
      Rare (50 Points)

      Reach one-thousand posts on the forums

      Unlocked Mon 02 Sep, 2019 7:01 PM

    ACHV. Points
    585
    Reputation
    10
    Join Date
    Jul 31 2017
    Posts
    1,839
    Location
    St. Louis, Missouri, USA
    0
    • Users who disliked
    • None
    0
    • Users who liked
    • None
    Reply With QuoteQuote
    #9
    Let us assume that one WOULD grind DIL to purchase Zen to buy a Master Key 10-Pack.

    1 Master Key 10-Pack is currently on sale for 900 Zen (regularly 1,125 Zen).
    The current best exchange rate for DIL to Zen is 410:1.
    900 * 410 = 369,000 DIL
    369,000 / 9,500 (the most any one toon can refine in a day) = 38.842105 days. (Or - if one has 39 toons - 1 day)

    But... The only way to refine 9,500 per day is to be a Lifetime Subscriber, and if it was timed right there could be 2 allowances which would negate the need to grind at all. So... Yeah, it's easier to just wait for your allowance and buy them then. Forget the maths.

    I helped! 🤪🥴