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Picard lost half the audience it started with

Started By:
Petrarch, Tue 11 Aug, 2020 10:58 PM
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    #46
    Please don''t bring a load of bullcrap political nonsense into this debate.

    Star Trek has ALWAYS been left leaning and railing against current affairs in society; be it racism, sexism, Cold War fears, environmentalism,, sexuality. It is nothing new to have a Trek show that makes a stance on an ongoing political issue, or pokes at the edges of certain groups that are the antithesis of what decent humanity should be.

    Discovery is no different to TOS having a black lady on the comms and a Russian on the con.

    People who have been long term Trek fans enjoy it as do many newer fans (only a good thing for the franchise); Trek is not doing anything it hasn't already done.
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    #47
    Please don''t bring a load of bullcrap political nonsense into this debate.

    Star Trek has ALWAYS been left leaning and railing against current affairs in society; be it racism, sexism, Cold War fears, environmentalism,, sexuality. It is nothing new to have a Trek show that makes a stance on an ongoing political issue, or pokes at the edges of certain groups that are the antithesis of what decent humanity should be.

    Discovery is no different to TOS having a black lady on the comms and a Russian on the con.

    People who have been long term Trek fans enjoy it as do many newer fans (only a good thing for the franchise); Trek is not doing anything it hasn't already done.
    Hear hear. Trek would not BE Trek without taking such stances.
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    #48
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    #49
    I dare to say that there's a minimal difference, just a tiny tiny one, between how was done in TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT and how it is in STD and Picard.
    You know...subtle and with respect and not like...
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    #50
    Trek has always been political, strongly leaning towards a more liberal and free-thinking society. That it would seek to criticise the isolationist and nationalist tendencies of Trump and his cult should not come as a surprise. They've always attempted to take stock of the political climate IRL and superimpose storylines and characters which challenge those beliefs or misconceptions. From the first interacial kiss to the black/white faced aliens, who were racist to one section of their society because their face was black/white on the WRONG SIDE THE HORROR.
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    #51
    I dare to say that there's a minimal difference, just a tiny tiny one, between how was done in TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT and how it is in STD and Picard.
    You know...subtle and with respect and not like...
    You say that, but you are comparing them to todays values, not those of when they were made. For example, Voyager, having a female captain was a hot issue for some Star Trek fans, they thought it was shoving political issues in their faces, and Kate Mulgrew has been on the record about the sexism she had faced, even from the production team.

    Here's an interview with Kate in 2002, on the topic of homosexual representation in Star Trek, among other things - http://www.totallykate.com/teafive/outiname.html

    Star Trek is not subtle about it's politics, a really obvious example of this is The High Ground, which made a reference to a unified Ireland being achieved through terrorism, which is a reference to the troubles. This led to the episode being cut in the UK and Ireland, when it has been aired, it had the reference removed, until 2007 in the UK where it had the reference included. Anyone in the UK, or Ireland would have seen this as force feeding a political issue, an issue which is still on the minds of many.

    What you think is force fed, may well in the future be looked back upon as "subtle and with respect" because the topics have become so normalised.
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    #52
    Who knows there might have been more "colorful metaphors" in earlier Trek series, if they were not subject to censoring for being on network television.
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    #53
    Who knows there might have been more "colorful metaphors" in earlier Trek series, if they were not subject to censoring for being on network television.
    They projected it on alien races. Klingons clearly were the russians. "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" and "Space Seed" were both excellent episodes tackeling different aspects of racism.
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    #54
    IMHO people don't like the political stuff in new Trek simply because the writing is so childishly horrible. In old Trek it was just inserted into the story better, in new Trek it IS the story and everything else is written around it sloppily using a 2x4 dipped in ink.

    But it always has been political, yeah. That point is fine.
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    #55
    I think tbh if we were people living in the 60's in the USA we'd probably find the inclusion of a black female bridge officer pretty heavy-handed in terms of making a political statement as well. Same with having a Russian crew member, or having male and female officers.
    Hell, even when Voyager first aired people were whining about a female captain and making out that it was a politically motivated decision etc. etc.

    Basically there has always been people moaning about statements being too "in your face" etc. It's just how Star Trek has always played it; it's not a franchise to beat about the bush at social commentary.
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    #56
    Hell, even when Voyager first aired people were whining about a female captain and making out that it was a politically motivated decision etc. etc.
    Well, according to the interview with Kate Mulgrew that I linked above, she had the impression that there were some behind the scenes who wanted her to fail, so they could replace her. But she didn't fail, Janeway was an amazing character, and captain, she is my favourite Star Trek captain, followed by Picard.
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    #57
    she had the impression that there were some behind the scenes who wanted her to fail, so they could replace her.
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    #58
    I'm not sure why you are linking that video, and quoting me, it has nothing to do with what I said. Though, because you might be interested in a bit of reading on the subject you raised, here is an article on the matter.

    https://www.closerweekly.com/posts/k...r-trek-151582/

    She messed up, she took out her feelings on the actor Jeri, not the people who made the decision, and she has admitted that, I don't know how the two of them get on these days, but she owned up, and took responsibility for her past actions.

    Whatever point you were trying to make, I am not sure.
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    #59
    That's an interesting behind the scenes look at things. I never realised tensions were so high during that first season with Sevens introduction. Shows the true extent of her character to freely admit she was wrong too, it's surprising how many people refuse to apoligise or admit their past ills even when confronted by them.

    Hard to say where I'd put Janeway in terms of "Captain ranking" though, each have their unique style and flare, with their strengths and weaknesses.
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    #60
    I wonder how many people tuned into Picard during a free week trial of CBS All Access and realized the show was hot garbage and not worth the money. If that’s the case, it’s shocking the viewership only dipped by half.
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