[Distant Knight]

I've been wondering, how is the crit severity damage buff applied when you do crit?

1. Dmg = base * (1 + cat1) * (1 + cat2) * (1 + crit severity)

2. Dmg = base * (1 + cat1) * (1 + bonus non crit dmg + crit severity)

3. Neither I've described is correct


If it's the case that #2 is correct, then wouldn't cat1 buffs be better than cat2 buffs on a ship with a ton of crit chance (like sci dps)?

[darthnovawave]

Version 2 should be correct here, as severity is a Cat2 type of bonus. Mathematically Cat1 and Cat2 bonus calcs work the same and the sum of each category gets multiplied together. Which one is best to optimize your DPS potential just depends on your build, and is the reason there can be a lot of confusion around things like whether it is better to go for DMG or CritD mods on weapons. Some theorycrafters out there have built calculators to try to tease out the math, but usually the differences end up being pretty small in most cases.

[Bridger]

The way this is worded only when you get a Critical Hit you get Bonus Damage in the amout of your CrtD.

[Solace]

The way this is worded only when you get a Critical Hit you get Bonus Damage in the amout of your CrtD.

So the easiest way to differentiate between Cat1 and Cat2 is the word "Bonus" any ability, weapon or trait that says it gives bonus damage is a cat2 damage buff.

For example:
X gives 15% phaser damage. This is Cat1.
Y gives 15% bonus phaser damage. This is Cat2.

IIRC CrtD is a mix of Cat1 and Cat2 but don't quote me on that.

[Miles]

The following is an abstract from these articles:
1. https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/wiki/math
2. https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/w...amage_formulas

Outgoing Weapon Damage (Pre-Resistance Damage)
[D] = [Base] * (([WpnPwr]+100)/200) * (1+∑[A]) * (1+∑[B]) * (1+Π[F]) * ([R])

Where:
[Base]= Base damage of damage source
[WpnPwr]= Current Weapon Subsystem Power
[A]= Cat1/SetA damage bonuses, additive
[B]= Cat2/SetB damage bonuses, additive, including severity bonuses
[F]= All other final damage multipliers, multiplicative
[R]= Range fall-off, as applicable (for non-energy weapons, R=1)
[D]= Pre-resist damage to target

Colloquially, this reads:
Base weapon damage * ((Weapons Power+100)/200) * (1+Sum of Cat1's) * (1+Sum of Cat2's) * (1+the product of any and all final damage multipliers) * (1-percentage lost to damage fall-off) = pre-resist damage to target

[Distant Knight]

I'm disappointed that crit severity is considered a cat2 damage bonus and not a final damage multiplier. If it's true that crit severity is considered cat2, wouldn't bonus damage be less desirable for a science ship than a regular (cat1) damage boost?

[Solace]

I'm disappointed that crit severity is considered a cat2 damage bonus and not a final damage multiplier. If it's true that crit severity is considered cat2, wouldn't bonus damage be less desirable for a science ship than a regular (cat1) damage boost?

No, any Cat2 boost is superior to that of Cat1, The keyword again is Bonus damage, Cat1 is your most basic additional damage from things like tactical consoles and set bonuses. Cat2 is added in after Cat1 damage is totaled up and always worth more in the long run as the more overall damage you have its going to add more to that.

To put it simply; Cat2 boosts are added together and multiplied to the Cat1 result.

[Distant Knight]

Why is Cat2 always better than Cat1? Wouldn't Cat1 be better than Cat2 if you had more Cat2 boosts than Cat1 boosts? Doing the calculations on my sci-energy tank, I think I DO actually have more Cat2 buffs than Cat1 for my exotic abilities assuming crit severity is Cat2 (got 90% crit chance for exotic).

When I said if Cat2 was worse than Cat1, I meant Cat2 boosts that were not crit severity

[Taku]

So here's the thing:

I have -- for example -- 4 Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons (2,804.2 dmg/2,243.4dps) and 2 Antiproton Turrets (973.7 dmg/1,168.4dps) on my ship.
They are all Epic Mk XV [CrtH/Dm][Dmg]x4

Am I wasting bonuses and mods here? Would I be better off flipping some of the [Dmg]s to non-[Dmg]s?
2.5 vs 1.06
Because the reddit said that the [Dmg] and [Xxx/Dm] mods do NOT get the 2.5 boost, but I think the 1.0{3/6} boost happens at a different location in the calculation.

I am cornfuzzled.

[Solace]

So here's the thing:

I have -- for example -- 4 Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons (2,804.2 dmg/2,243.4dps) and 2 Antiproton Turrets (973.7 dmg/1,168.4dps) on my ship.
They are all Epic Mk XV [CrtH/Dm][Dmg]x4

Am I wasting bonuses and mods here? Would I be better off flipping some of the [Dmg]s to non-[Dmg]s?
2.5 vs 1.06
Because the reddit said that the [Dmg] and [Xxx/Dm] mods do NOT get the 2.5 boost, but I think the 1.0{3/6} boost happens at a different location in the calculation.

I am cornfuzzled.

My approach to that predicament is more simple. If I have over 50% (or close enough 48-49%) base Crit Chance, then I'd run [CrtD]x4[CrtD/Dm] on my weapons. But typically the damage difference between DMG and CrtD is mariginal since the buff a few years back.

Also I'd suggest using a source like the DPS league website for information about calculations and such like this one: https://www.sto-league.com/comparing-dmg-and-crtd/

[Bridger]

Sorry I can't explain anymore how it works because I forgot how it works a long time ago.

1.) The two mods to use are either Dmg or CrtD the mods have a minimal difference in performance and if you are not one of the best 10 players you will see no difference.

2.) Choosing the mods on your weapons can be pure Dmg or pure CrtD or a mixture 50:50

3.) The Epic mod should always be CrtD/Dmg

That is all it is in STO.

[Taku]

I went with [CrtH/Dmg] to up my crit chance (yeah, I know it's only like 2%), assuming that the [Dmg]x4 would work well enough in any situation and the crit would just be icing on the cake.

But now, I just can't seem to wrap my fuzzy little head around their calculations. Oh well. I haven't DPSed my current build. I'm sure it's sub-100 though. I think. Yeah, my last DeePS chart says I did 25.48k DPS in 145.4s in a standard Crystalline Catastrophe PUGger. And I came first by a long way in that one. That was back in JUN 2019 though. I should reinstall SCM and see if I've improved.

Anyway, thanks for trying! 🖖🏼

[Bridger]

I went with [CrtH/Dmg] to up my crit chance (yeah, I know it's only like 2%), assuming that the [Dmg]x4 would work well enough in any situation and the crit would just be icing on the cake.

But now, I just can't seem to wrap my fuzzy little head around their calculations. Oh well. I haven't DPSed my current build. I'm sure it's sub-100 though. I think. Yeah, my last DeePS chart says I did 25.48k DPS in 145.4s in a standard Crystalline Catastrophe PUGger. And I came first by a long way in that one. That was back in JUN 2019 though. I should reinstall SCM and see if I've improved.

Anyway, thanks for trying! 🖖🏼

There are easier ways to push your CrtH than to waste a good mod on the Weapons.

[Solace]

I went with [CrtH/Dmg] to up my crit chance (yeah, I know it's only like 2%), assuming that the [Dmg]x4 would work well enough in any situation and the crit would just be icing on the cake.

But now, I just can't seem to wrap my fuzzy little head around their calculations. Oh well. I haven't DPSed my current build. I'm sure it's sub-100 though. I think. Yeah, my last DeePS chart says I did 25.48k DPS in 145.4s in a standard Crystalline Catastrophe PUGger. And I came first by a long way in that one. That was back in JUN 2019 though. I should reinstall SCM and see if I've improved.

Anyway, thanks for trying! 🖖🏼

CritD over CritH since there are plenty of options and passive buffs that provide nice boosts to CritH, from species traits, endeavours, consoles, set bonuses etc. Its a waste of a mod imo.

[Miles]

I went with [CrtH/Dmg] to up my crit chance (yeah, I know it's only like 2%), assuming that the [Dmg]x4 would work well enough in any situation and the crit would just be icing on the cake.

But now, I just can't seem to wrap my fuzzy little head around their calculations. Oh well. I haven't DPSed my current build. I'm sure it's sub-100 though. I think. Yeah, my last DeePS chart says I did 25.48k DPS in 145.4s in a standard Crystalline Catastrophe PUGger. And I came first by a long way in that one. That was back in JUN 2019 though. I should reinstall SCM and see if I've improved.

Anyway, thanks for trying! 🖖🏼

An old rule of thumb:

CrtD on the weapons
CrtH on everything else