[Bridger]

I am a bit at a lost right now, I have seen some major discrepancies with the DPS Numbers between my FED Human and my Liberated Klingon.

Both toons are completely naked except for the gear no traits, no crew and both use the same Skill Tree (Fed Phaser and KDF Disruptor).

All gear was checked to be correct Phaser Locators for the Fed and Disruptor Locators for the KDF.

On both Toons: [Fleet Tactical Skill Boost - Elite Training], [Fleet Engineering Skill Boost - Elite Training], [Fleet Science Skill Boost - Elite Training], 700 Day Veteran, Combat Performance Boost Tier 3, Warp Signature Masking

3.) The Doffs are the typical ones CrtH, CrtD, Conn Officer, 27 of 47 and 24 of 47.





Did the same test on my Jem'Hadar had to switch to matching Dual Cannons since he is using a Polaron Build.

[Morris]

Not to complicate things for you, but have you tried with different ships? This might be a ship specific glitch. Then, if all fed ships provide similar results, maybe try KDF ships, just to see if Cryptic messed something up when they made all faction's ships available to all factions. Just something to maybe look into, if you haven't already.

I've been a little busy IRL this week, or I'd jump in to try and do some research of my own. I can barely log in long enough to run the event this week...in fact, I missed it yesterday! I'll experiment some on my own, if I get a chance!

I'm sure that you've already done this, but in case you haven't, you should also post this in the DPS leagues in Discord, and maybe the STO Reddit, just to get more people looking at this...Cryptic included!

I look forward to seeing what comes of this! Thank you for bringing it to our attention, Bridger.

[Bridger]

Here is the comparrison on my Legendary D7

[Morris]

It looks like Humans get a stealth damage bonus! It would be interesting to compare a Human, with personal space traits loaded vs. an alien Romulan, with the same personal space traits loaded plus it's additional trait (presumably an additional damage bonus trait), just to see if the meta is turned on it's head with this finding of yours.

[Sul-Matuul]

It's because the smell of a filthy Klingon is affecting your sensor's ability to properly target.....

[Generator]

My apologies if I missed this above, but what happens when you switch? i.e. If your Fed uses the Disruptor ones, and KDF goes Phaser, does the discrepancy reverse?

[darthnovawave]

Maybe play with some parses. The tooltips can often be inaccurate compared to the "real" stats. Just comparing the tooltip on mouseover of the weapon slot in the HUD will give you different numbers then what you see when you mouseover the part itself, so it can be tricky to know if either are accurate.

[Tbang]

I can't really be surprised at this.

I looked over the detailed outputs from a run at something, and noticed a few things I think of as sloppy bookkeepping by the program.. for one, the final number is a simple (total damage of any sort) / (time of active combat).

So in one instance I checked, my ship (on the dmg graph) did a peak couple hundred K DPS right at the beginning, and couldn't get anywhere in the same ballpark before killing it, so the overall DPS number was some 4 or 5K number. What that is telling me is that the "overall" DPS number has little relation to how "powerful" my build is, i.e. did raising a cannon from XIV to XV help by X%? It would take digging thru the detailed report to answer that. That overall number is also dependent on the engagement.. how many others were there dealing damage (that you obviously can't get credit for), and how much shorter the engagement was as a result. Think of a target as a finite pool of "damage" that will be done, and how big was your slice and how long did it take to get it...

This may not be the particular one I had in mind, but a simplistic attack, that in this instance came out with the results at least suggestive of overall damage capability. I still have trouble with the main weapons being such a small part of attack damage. It's the fancy consoles, the expensive fighter pets that really seem to do big time damage..

[Bridger]

Here is a comparison of an ISE-Run at leat until I get destroyed by the first Tac-Cube (Same Ship, Same Gear except for the KDF using Disruptors).

[Taku]

Okay, I am NOT someone to jump into a DPS conversation - because I know nothing about DPS. Having said that, I did wonder if the species-specific innate abilities of the captains might have some small effect on the totals? I know that the space/ground abilities of my alien captain are different from the ones my Reman captain has, and they are not the same as the ones my Klingon, Jem'Hadar, or Human captains have.

And, would a Klingon FED captain show the same discrepancies when compared to a Klingon KDF captain? Or a Liberated Borg FED compared to a KDF? I guess I'm wondering if it's a faction discrepancy or a species one.

Is it Human vs Klingon vs Romulan, etc. Or is it FED vs KDF?

Or am I asking stupid questions?

[Tbang]

That's another thing I find mind boggling.. I read you as 47K and 44K DPS for your dual heavies... and I'm not even breaking 1K.. *that* much of difference from BOffs, traits, etc? I also note with mine, the DPS for dual cannon and dual cannon in rapid fire I are essentially equal.. huh? Does rapid fire not help? Seriously? and the pets did the heavy lifting..



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I think what you're seeing is that any variance due to racial, career, or timeline differences are overwhelmed by things like do you have the 23, 25, 27, 29 of 42 bridge officers, the locator consoles, and the other obscure and hard to get things for these cookbook builds. I'm just sticking with making the most of the equipment I can get without spending a billion EC(which I'm not likely to have anytime soon) at the AH.. plod along, do what I can do, and the fancy crap will come eventually..

Okay, I am NOT someone to jump into a DPS conversation - because I know nothing about DPS. Having said that, I did wonder if the species-specific innate abilities of the captains might have some small effect on the totals? I know that the space/ground abilities of my alien captain are different from the ones my Reman captain has, and they are not the same as the ones my Klingon, Jem'Hadar, or Human captains have.

And, would a Klingon FED captain show the same discrepancies when compared to a Klingon KDF captain? Or a Liberated Borg FED compared to a KDF? I guess I'm wondering if it's a faction discrepancy or a species one.

Is it Human vs Klingon vs Romulan, etc. Or is it FED vs KDF?

Or am I asking stupid questions?

[Bridger]

Here is a second run on the Terran Defiant agian same build but I have removed the Agony Redistributor and the Tholian Webspinner Array. Those runs are much closer together and make it plausible that it is only a display bug.

[Bridger]

That's another thing I find mind boggling.. I read you as 47K and 44K DPS for your dual heavies... and I'm not even breaking 1K.. *that* much of difference from BOffs, traits, etc? I also note with mine, the DPS for dual cannon and dual cannon in rapid fire I are essentially equal.. huh? Does rapid fire not help? Seriously? and the pets did the heavy lifting..



- - - Updated - - -

I think what you're seeing is that any variance due to racial, career, or timeline differences are overwhelmed by things like do you have the 23, 25, 27, 29 of 42 bridge officers, the locator consoles, and the other obscure and hard to get things for these cookbook builds. I'm just sticking with making the most of the equipment I can get without spending a billion EC(which I'm not likely to have anytime soon) at the AH.. plod along, do what I can do, and the fancy crap will come eventually..

Yes the power creep is real in this game the right consoles and Traits can make a huge difference.

[Taku]

I think what you're seeing is that any variance due to racial, career, or timeline differences are overwhelmed by things like do you have the 23, 25, 27, 29 of 42 bridge officers, the locator consoles, and the other obscure and hard to get things for these cookbook builds.

I'm just wondering that if - everything else being equal - the speciated skills for space/ground could account for some of the discrepancies, or if it can be explained by faction differences.

For example, does my FED Human hit harder than my KDF Klingon because he's a FED or because he's Human? Until there are apples/apples comparisons there's no way to know.

Stick a Klingon FED in a stripped-out T4 and compare it to a Human FED.
Or roll a couple of identical Romulans and see if there's a difference between a FED captain and a KDF one.

[Dark]

I'm not really sure how to say this tactfully, but... T'Bang, you're groping about in an information void trying to figure out things that have long been understood.

Piloting makes a major difference. The ability to properly position yourself, to do so in a timely fashion, when and which abilities to use, all of that makes a difference. Yes, there are variances due to team performance. That's because we don't talk about DPS in a vacuum, as an irrelevant theoretical concept. Your DPS only matters in a team situation (in Advanced/Elite STFs), so it needs to be accounted for to attain a relevant practical DPS number. It doesn't matter if you can do 999k DPS alone if you only do 1k DPS in an actual STF with a team because you can never actually get yourself into position when there are other people around. For that matter, content also matters. Different locations, different spawns, different compositions, all of those affect the DPS you do in different situations. That's why ISA (ISE back before the difficulty revamp) has been used as the benchmark (it's consistent with little variability) for over a decade.

It's been a while since I poked at parsing but I don't think you're even in an ISA, and your abilities at first blush look to lack focus. I strongly advise you to read up on stuff at the stobuilds reddit.