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Odyssey Class

Started By:
Dylan Erikson, Tue 14 Nov, 2017 6:24 PM
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    #16
    From the image, I wouldn't be able to surmise that the Odyssey would actually have ground landing capabilities. The stress and weight placed on landing struts may be too much for even engineering of the time to handle. Well, they may be able to engineer it but it may not be feasible if it required compromises to other ship systems. Always trade-offs to consider and if it is really needed.

    Now, water landing capabilities is something entirely different, which it may have. Water wouldn't require land gear as much as it would need some kind of buoyancy. We saw it, ok you can groan, in JJ Trek's 2nd movie. Well, sort of with the Enterprise able to operate/launch from water.

    We also see this in other sci-fi or anime series. Battleship Yamato, Voltron (the vehicle one), Macross (SDF-1), etc. I wouldn't say it would be a far stretch to say that Starfleet ships with atmospheric capability would be able to exert some buoyancy field to remain afloat if needed, as an emergency or by design.
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    #17
    Those are some really good points, and looking at the Odyssey’s design, particularly the split neck and the way the saucer and nacelles are shaped, I wouldn’t be surprised if it could float, or operate underwater (even though it is more than a kilometer long).
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    #18
    The stress and weight placed on landing struts may be too much for even engineering of the time to handle.
    Voyager landing struts are also tiny compared to the ship.

    latest?cb=20110903034808&path prefix=en
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    #19
    But these ships are not just made of steel beams are they? Probably a variety of super-strong alloys and other materials like ceramics that are vastly stronger that what we think of today as being good for building.

    So i imagine that those landing legs are probably way tougher than they look and probably tied in to the structure of the whole hull to better spread the weight. Plus Voyager being designed to land probably has everything helped by the integrity field, anti-grav emitters etc.
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    #20
    The Intrepid class had landing capabilities, although I’m not sure if the Odyssey can land or not...
    Check if they have blue lights installed, if they do, it means they can go to Blue Alert, so therefore can land.

    That's how it works right?
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    #21
    "Step up to Red Alert."
    "Uh, sir? Are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb."
    "And when I saw the breadth of my domain, I wept, for there were no more worlds left to conquer."
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    #22
    WTH, I went to upvote the quote above, accidentally downvoted it, because I'm on my phone and apparently have fingers like The Thing, and now I can't un-downvote. Soon as I can fix that I will.

    #vexed
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    #23
     –  Last edited by Taku; Tue 19 Dec, 2017 4:59 PM.
    Off Topic:

    A Google search has two predominant sources: Memory Alpha and Star Trek: A Call to Duty (both source the Technical Manual). From what I read, there is no mention of the Galaxy saucer being able to float. This does not mean it can't.

    Yet, I get the impression that the saucer alone does not have atmospheric capabilities. In other words, if the saucer is going to the planet surface, then it's a one-way trip.
    This is not a spoiler, it is just a lot of text.

    Section 2.7: EMERGENCY LANDING OF SAUCER MODULE

    In the event the Saucer Module is disabled near a planetary body and cannot maintain a stable orbit, landing the saucer is the final option. This is to be attempted only when an acceptable chance of success has been computed and all other available procedures have failed, short of total evacuation by lifeboat modules. If the senior officer aboard the Saucer Module makes the decision that the attempt must be made, special sets of crew procedures and stored computer commands will be implemented. While extensive computer modeling has been taken into account in creating the landing programs, no guarantee as to their effectiveness can yet be offered. SIF (Structural Integrity Field - ed.) reinforcements of the saucer framework is believed necessary to avoid exceeding saucer structural limits during atmospheric entry of a Class M planet.

    Without at least minimal reinforcement, aerodynamic loads associated with most entry profiles may result in spaceframe destruction prior to landing. As it was deemed too costly to subject a Galaxy class spaceframe to a full-up atmosphere entry test, the computer model is the best available reference. Starfleet has recorded a total of three data sets from previous smaller starship hull landings, and these were extremely helpful in the design of the computer routines. Conventional wisdom believes, however, that the Galaxy class hull is still outside the survivable performance envelope and would be unable to successfully perform a deorbit and entry into a Class M compatible atmosphere.

    A complex set of terrain touchdown options reside in the main computers, taking into account such factors as contact material, air density, humidity, and temperature. If there is an adequate amount of time for sensor scans during the approach, the sensor values will be compared to those in memory, and the appropriate control adjustments can be sent to the impulse engines and field devices. Beach sand, deep water, smooth ice, and grassy plains on Class M bodies are preferable sites; in contrast, certain terrain types have not been modeled, such as mountainous surfaces. Other nonterrestrial bodies may possess survivable surfaces, and their suitability as landing sites will depend on the specific situation, computer recommendations, and command decisions.

    Naturally, many planetary types will possess environments so hostile to crew survival that remaining in orbit will be a preferable option, unless emergency landing is mandated by tactical considerations.

    Prior to landing on a Class M planet (as only one example), the structural integrity field and inertial damping field (IDF - ed.) would be set to high output, with the SIF also set to flex the vehicle in small, controlled amounts for shock attenuation. The deflector grid will be set to a high output as well, with its field decay radius configured to optimize the Saucer Module's final slideout distance while applying a controlled friction effect. During approach the computer would take atmospheric readings and make adjustments along the descent, and command the deflector field to perform airflow and steering changes. In the event computer control is limited, the Flight Control Officer (Conn) should be able to make manual attitude control inputs from his/her panel. The IDF would be configured to "jolt mode" during major impacts, if they exceed certain preset translational limits. The deflector field is designed to protect the vehicle hull, though only up to the specified load limits when the hull must make contact with the ground. If the SIF, IDF, and deflector grid are all functioning during slideout, they can add a great deal to minimizing impact forces.

    It is assumed that the vehicle would be a total loss insofar as ever being returned to operational service, due to the extreme loads placed upon it, which would result in deep, unrecoverable alloy damage. Postlanding mission rules call for full security measures to protect the crew and vehicle while awaiting Starfleet assistance. Numerous options have been documented, from simple waiting within Federation or allied territory, to total evacuation and vehicle destruct in areas controlled by threat forces.

    Source: Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual, pgs. 28-29

    So the takeaways for me are:
    • The Galaxy class was not designed to enter a Class M atmosphere
    • The Galaxy class was not designed to land
    • The Galaxy class was not designed to hide in an ocean
    • If the Saucer Module touches down, it stays there
    • The Saucer Module does, indeed, float
    • Lt. Cdr. Data's reaction to atmospheric entry was approriate
    "And when I saw the breadth of my domain, I wept, for there were no more worlds left to conquer."
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    #24
    Then again, that's the galaxy class. This is Odyssey, so there's no conclusive answer to this question, because its safe to assume Odyssey class was built as an improvement over the previous flagships + the intrepid's long term journey and definitely some of its design cues are seen within the Odyssey.

    This would pose as a good question to the person who made this ship design on STO tbh, or Cryptic themselves. Maybe Three can take this into consideration next time there's a podcast with Cryptic staff team.
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    #25
    It was a guy by the name of Adam Ihle who designed the Odyssey class as part of the Design the Next Enterprise contest, the first image was the original concept sketch he did for it.

    Ihle Creations

    Fun Fact time!

    There was another guy called Jason Lee who took part in the contest as well with his concept for the Magellanic class and while he didn't win the vote for the Enterprise, Cryptic liked his design and it became the Chimera class.

    Jason Lee - Vektor Visual
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    #26
    That is awesome, thanks for sharing the link. While I love the Chimera's design, I don't think it would have worked as the new Enterprise.
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    #27
    If you like to do view the Odyssey class model in close detail you can follow this link here:
    ArtStation - Odyssey Class Star Cruiser, Thomas Marrone

    In the first picture you can load the model that you can zoom, move and rotate around as you like and do your own space walk on the hull kinda. Big Grin
    Thomas Marrone has posted several other of the models he created or modified for Star Trek Online on ArtStation to be gazed upon. For example the Manticore class or the USS Kobayashi Maru are there as well.

    Enjoy!
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    #28
     –  Last edited by Taku; Thu 28 Dec, 2017 1:10 PM.
    Then again, that's the galaxy class. This is Odyssey, so there's no conclusive answer to this question, because its safe to assume Odyssey class was built as an improvement over the previous flagships + the intrepid's long term journey and definitely some of its design cues are seen within the Odyssey.
    I understand that the specs were for a Galaxy Class, but I don't believe that Starfleet would change the design requirements for capital ships that drastically. There's a big difference between getting a teeny-tiny Intrepid Class to land, and designing a SIF/IDF configuration that would allow something the size of a ma-hoo-sive Odyssey Class to do anything more than plummet. The saucer module-to-engineering section connections on the Odyssey Class seem even less suitable to atmospheric excursions than the spine on a Galaxy Class. They may help stability in transwarp, but I bet they don't do so well holding up the saucer in M-Class gravity.

    I think the Odyssey Class carries on with the philosophy of past capital ships that the saucer can land in a controlled crash. The specs for the separated drive section tend to suggest this. The drive section gets speed and maneuvering boosts when the chevron disengages, the same as a Galaxy Class drive section after shedding the saucer module.

    Memory Gamma says that the Odyssey Class was constructed (a la Kelvin Constitution Class) not at Utopia Planitia, but on Earth at the San Francisco Shipyards. Nothing from Cryptic about it, and I can't find where Memory Gamma came up with that. It may have come from one of the fanfics or from a book. Either way, it most assuredly CANNOT be considered canon at this point. I'm including it strictly because there may be a canon source out there somewhere.
    "And when I saw the breadth of my domain, I wept, for there were no more worlds left to conquer."
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    #29
    Your analysis from the design stand-point makes sense. Also, I just realized - I suppose for surface visits, is why the Aquarius ship also exists.
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    #30