[Bridger]

So you would assume that once they have put it on Youtube it would have been a hit, but the opposite was the case.

[Scarlett]

Yes, I think the paywall does most of the damage tbh. People can't just stick it on to see what it's like and decide for themselves. A lot of people must listen to videos like that Doomcock guy and those are hardly a balanced view.

Older Trek was always on TV somewhere so you could just jump in and out. With only 10 episodes a season and locked behind a subscription, no wonder there is some resistance to a new take on the idea.

Woah, there are two things at work above:

1) People choose to watch Doomclock. Frankly, the "name" kinda suggests what you are gong to get. I have a couple I prefer if you want some rather unbiased opinions

2) The paywall is already a button-topic and the typical reason I have heard is something like, "The show is expensive, so CBS needs a monetary vehicle to assist with costs." Sure, man, ok. Another reason I heard is, "CBS execs have little confidence in the show, so instead of using a precious time slot on the network channel, they put it for consumption by people who really Really REALLY want to watch the show." Sure, man, ok.

So, there is little resistance to watch the show, per se. CBS made a barrier from the beginning. There are people who want to watch the show … but can't. Or won't because of the paywall. And for those who choose not to watch it, the paywall is just an excuse to protect their opinion.

In that regard, I agree that the paywall is damaging the image of the show to a degree.

[Sul-Matuul]

So you would assume that once they have put it on YouTube it would have been a hit, but the opposite was the case.

They put a single episode on YouTube if i recall. Which just ended up acting like a candle to an army of hatred and bile-spewing moths. It was pretty obvious that certain parties arranged to bombard said release with negative comments and downvotes (hell one of them even admitted it in a video), it was simple for them to rouse their troops. They do have to keep those people clicking their clickbait links after all to grab all that advert cash!
And generally, the people who do like the show just enjoy it in peace, they don't want to go out on YouTube talking about it because they know what will happen.

The best way to promote the show to the masses would be to move it to a network after the first season was over, then the general public could see it without a paywall. Now in the UK it was always view-able on Netflix and that's pretty popular anyway due to having multiple other shows that are very popular, plus films and a children's channel too. So it was probably way easier to see the show here that the US where i'd imagine there's so many networks with paid services that getting to watch everything is simply not reasonable cost-wise.

[Scarlett]

The best way to promote the show to the masses would be to move it to a network after the first season was over, then the general public could see it without a paywall. Now in the UK it was always view-able on Netflix and that's pretty popular anyway due to having multiple other shows that are very popular, plus films and a children's channel too. So it was probably way easier to see the show here that the US where i'd imagine there's so many networks with paid services that getting to watch everything is simply not reasonable cost-wise.

I'm going to agree to that.

Then we would really get a flavor (or flavour) if the show is "good" or not.

[Brianwgcom]

The paywall was one of the things back in UPN days that also did not do well for Enterprise. It wasn't until much later when it was on normal TV did I start meeting other people outside my friends that liked it.

Saying that my boss in work at the time never had being into any other Star Trek saw Enterprise and loved it, said it was the most realistic Si Fi he'd seen in years.

[Sul-Matuul]

Same thing happens with Game of Thrones tbh. It might be one of the biggest shows in TV for decades but realistically hardly any of the population is watching it because at least here, you need Sky (or NowTV) to access it and that costs a lot.
At least that has a book going along with it though, which meant it was popular already with a great number of fans.

And sure ST had decades of previous shows and films to draw fans from too, but if you're making something new and a bit different you need new blood to be drawn in. Because some portion of the older fans will always rebel and we are seeing that with DSC.
With GoT there are a lot of people (myself included i must admit) who are massive book fans and so to see the show crap all over the potential of the story is pretty bad feeling. The difference is, I don't feel the need to try and stir up a riot on YouTube of post some of the ridiculous rants that can be found on a few sci-fi sites.

[Oxygenthief]

I feel like I missed an opportunity to respond early on to the OP since I am new here. But since the discussion is still going I may as well share my thoughts....

I too have mixed feelings about Discovery, for many of the same reasons mentioned already (2 dimensional lead, predictable plot line, non-cannon plot twists, etc...) I get what the producers are trying to do, honestly. Making the central character a non-Captain is an original approach that I think could work if that character was crafted "better". Plot twists are welcome, but at least learn from masters like Shamalan and Tarentino, there is a method of delivery that eases your viewers into the twists. Simply saying, hey I'm spock's sister, we're estranged. Is like someone claiming they were in Seal Team Six and was there when Bin Laden was killed. No one believes that unless there is character development surrounding that fact first.

Anyhoo, these things are minor annoyances IMO. My biggest issue with Discovery is the mature nature of the show now. I loved getting my pre-teen daughter hooked on Voyager, watching TNG, Enterprise and then DS9 (from season 4 on, lol). Each iteration of Star Trek was family oriented. Violent at times but never any gore. Sexuality as unseen as the toilets on starships. Discovery is essentially Game of Thrones in Space when it comes to mature content. I tried to watch the first episode with my daughter, she was so excited, and even she was like, WTF?! Later episodes containing blood, guts, and varying sexuality from rapy torture scenes to politically driven PDA makes you wonder if anyone at CBS ever considered the concept of family oriented programming.

I like the show, the same way I like GoT. I think we need more sci-fi in general. But I hate that I can't watch Disco with my kids. That, to me, is the biggest let down for the new series above all others...

[Sul-Matuul]

Anyhoo, these things are minor annoyances IMO. My biggest issue with Discovery is the mature nature of the show now. I loved getting my pre-teen daughter hooked on Voyager, watching TNG, Enterprise and then DS9 (from season 4 on, lol). Each iteration of Star Trek was family oriented. Violent at times but never any gore. Sexuality as unseen as the toilets on starships. Discovery is essentially Game of Thrones in Space when it comes to mature content. I tried to watch the first episode with my daughter, she was so excited, and even she was like, WTF?! Later episodes containing blood, guts, and varying sexuality from rapy torture scenes to politically driven PDA makes you wonder if anyone at CBS ever considered the concept of family oriented programming.

I like the show, the same way I like GoT. I think we need more sci-fi in general. But I hate that I can't watch Disco with my kids. That, to me, is the biggest let down for the new series above all others...

I think tbh a lot of what is in DSC existed in Trek already at some point, but it's easy to forget it being it was decades ago maybe, and perhaps DSC makes it more obvious.
Blood and gore was not as absent as people think, anyone recall TNG's "Conspiracy" which had a dude's chest and head explode to reveal a parasite living inside.
And as for sexuality, well Kirk was always getting it on with any female they came across and outfits were hardly encouraging of a chaste version of sci-fi in the future lol. Plus we've got TNG again with Riker who pretty much does the same as Kirk but he's not in command any more.

[Oxygenthief]

Kirk and Riker gave off the machismo that gave the impression they were horn dogs. I get that. But you never saw Kirk dry humping Ohura. Maybe a passionate kiss or two in the series, a strong embrace, but never something where my kids turn around and ask me "Daddy what is he doing to her"?

I remember the episodes where phazer fire would disintegrate a person, showing skeletons then a pile of dust. I also remember the instance you are referring to where the human body burst open to display an alien. But these are the extremes and even then, it was tastefully done. Hell, even the latest movies in the Kelvin timeline don't show that level of gore and violence. We never saw entrails being spilled, pools of blood or someone's head being cut off. Like I said, I think our society has accepted the uptick in violence on TV simply because we are jaded by other popular shows.

Sadly, I like the gore. GoT, Walking Dead, even Dexter from a few years back. But this is tantamount to the flinstones cartoons getting re-released and every episode is like Jurassic Park in which someone dies from being eaten or mauled by a raptor. Hell, I'd probably watch that show too! But as a dad, it's disappointing...

[Sul-Matuul]

Well they are meant to be making an animated Trek show, which i'm guessing will be more young audience oriented?

And there's a tonnes of Trek already out there that is perfectly ok for family viewing anyway. I guess if you wanna watch it in chronological order then DSC is maybe not an ideal starting point.
But it's probably a sign of viewer trends and a move to more mature shows being created and accepted.

[Brianwgcom]

They are making 2 animated shows.

1 aimed at kids in Nickelodeon and the other is made by the same guy behind Rick and Morty called Lower Decks.

[Scarlett]

Which is technically OT

Been watching a lot of fan stuff lately ... Lots of wasted time there

Which is also technically OT ...

[casualsto]

Discovery is a nice show, overall. Soapy, bingy-formatted.

It's not Star Trek and shouldn't be regarded as Trek.

Hope the fugly ship trend doesn't translate in STO too much, even if the content is technically strong.

[aceman67]

I'm just going to be perfectly honest and blunt about this topic:

There's way too much hate for hate's sake going on in the fandom. Too many nay-sayers, too many sensationalists. Too many people taking their hate for the series and redirecting it towards people who like the series. Too many band-wagon hoppers.

I'm not saying that is what's going on here, but in almost every discussion I've had about Discovery elsewhere on the internet, this is a rampant issue. For every youtube video that talks about Discovery in a positive light, there's 5 to 10 more that are calling for it to be drawn and quartered

I have literally been called "A piece of ♥♥♥♥" because I said I liked Discovery which is a "Piece of ♥♥♥♥ show". WTF!?

Despite the civility that this thread has (which is extremely rare to come across), it's sensationalist videos in the OP feeding the hate-train that is seriously tearing the fandom apart.

As Yoda said, Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. We were fearful that the show wouldn't live up to our expectations (which were admittedly pretty damn high, sometimes unreasonably so), our expectations not being met made us angry, which led people to hate the show, and eventually that hate will manifest in there not being any Trek on TV or the Big Screen for a long time.

Is CBS at fault? Yes, they could have done a better job. But the fandom is at fault too in regards to how they are handling it, in terms of our expectations and our reactions, some of way's I've seen people act is disgusting.

One persons opinion, despite their position at CBS and on the show's production staff, does not mean that Discovery isn't for Star Trek Fans. That's just one persons opinion.

Make your own opinion, don't let others make it for you.

[Sul-Matuul]

Well said Aceman67. Couldn't agree more.

It's not for everyone, but the level of hatred and vitriol being stirred up by some in the Trek community is completely ridiculous and only shows Trek fans in a poor light if i'm honest.
The same way some "fans" (and i use that to describe those who i honestly have a hard time being associated with as a fan of the same genre) acted around the latest SW film is a prime example of it. Just because you dislike something does not make it acceptable to promote the level of, well, nastiness we have seen from some parts of the community. And sadly the situation with DSC seems to be similar.