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Derpidex Build Assistance

Started By:
starsrift, Mon 09 Mar, 2015 8:05 AM
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    #1
     –  Last edited by starsrift; Mon 20 Apr, 2015 8:52 AM.
    EDIT: My "final" build - as in when I stopped talking about it and just upgraded stuff - is...
    (And, read the afterword - I would NOT recommend building this precisely, though it IS cheap!)

    Ship: Fleet D'Deridex Retrofit, with an Engineer Captain.
    Weapons Fore: 2x Caustic Plasma DBB Mk XIII [Acc]x2, 1x Romulan Plasma DBB Mk XII [Acc] [CrtD], 1x Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torp
    Weapons Rear: 4x Caustic Plasma Turret Mk XI [Acc]x2
    Deflector: Adapted KHG (KDF) / MACO (FED) Mk XII
    Impulse: KHG Engine MK XII (KDF) / Adapted MACO (FED) Engine MK XII
    Singularity: Elite Fleet Reinforced Singularity Core Mk XII [SingA] [OLoad] [WCap] [AMP] [SSS]
    Shield: Adapted KHG (KDF) / MACO (FED) Mk XII
    Devices: Subspace Field Mod, Deployable Turret of the Week, Shield Battery and Weapon Battery
    Engineer Consoles: Plasmonic Leech, Enhanced Neutronium Alloy Mk X [+Turn], Enhanced RCS Accelerator Mk X [+AllRes], Zero-point Energy Conduit Mk XIII
    Science Consoles: Emitter Array Mk XII [-Th] [Pla], Bioneural Infusion Circuits, Assimilated Module Mk XIII
    Tac Consoles: 2x Vulnerability Exploiter Mk XIII [+Pla], 1x Vulnerability Locator Mk XII [+Pla]

    DOFFs: 2x Damage Control Engineer(Reduce recharge on EptX), 1x Warp Core Engineer (Improve power on EptX), 2x Energy Weapon Officer (30% Shield Pen on Beam Overload)

    BOFFS:
    Com Eng: EptS 1 / ETeam 2 / EptW 3 / A2SIF 3
    Lt. Com Sci: HE 1 / STeam 2 / HE 3
    Lt. Com Tac: BO 1 / BO 2 / APDelta 2
    Ens Tac: TacTeam 1
    Uni Tac: TacTeam 1

    I get 11k DPS*, before upgrading this build further into MK XIV Epic gear.

    Afterword: This is, of course, my build when I stopped posting here about it. It's quite comfortable, and I'll be upgrading the various parts of it. My goal is 20k DPS, which I'm fairly confident I can reach.
    In summary, Beam Overload is a fun and more than viable build for elite STFs, but it doesn't reach to the best. However, I think you could make a better build than a 60k FAW build with Overload, because of the shield pen - if you used one DBB to spike Overload and then used CRF or CSV with a DHC build. You will need at least 7 tac slots to do so; more research is required.

    Point 1: Caustics are bad, even if they are 'free'. This build was started before the upgrade/crafting system, which is part of why it uses them. If you want to go green, use Rom Plasma. If you're looking for a generic Overload build, antiprotons are definitely the way to go, and make room for some AP-boosting stuff like the Ancient Obelisk Technology set. If you're set on plasma, use ONE caustic, and one only. Even just on your turrets; the effect is the same. The order that you right-click your weapons to autofire is the order they will fire in, so as long as you set your Caustic plasma weapon to proc before the others, you should be fine. Either way, the caustic proc is garbage.
    Point 2: The shield pen on overload doofs are important. Most people do 1 damage to shields, 2 damage to hull, or 1:2. This build does 1:7, meaning you wipe out ships a lot faster than your raw DPS numbers might suggest. This, however, is situational - in STF's like ISE or CSE with a lot of structures to bash against, your shield pen isn't worth much. However, when facing down the clusters of spheres that spawn, your single-target focus is a definite bonus. On the other hand, in STF's like Borg Disconnected where the enemy flagship shields almost never go down, you are as a god, and it will feel amazing.
    Generally speaking, you hit well above your weight and you should have zero problems transitioning to PvP if you like.
    Point 3: This build is tanky as hell. I routinely run CCE (for the radiogenic particle, of course) with it and I can tank the Pulse no problem, the most I drop is to 50% hull. This translates into more DPS, of course, because you don't have to run away and escape the pulse like a puny Escort.
    Point 4: The mix of tac consoles is incorrect. At last check, my crit stats are 30% crit with 120% severity, which should be less crit chance and more severity. Using [acc] weapons gives a HUGE bonus to crit chance as well as (patch-dependent) severity, and if you go with [acc] weapons, you need to use Exploiters, not Locators. [Acc] is still a useful modifier; don't get sucked into Reddit-think. Reddit is great for build suggestions like CrtD/Locators, but they take one idea and then immediate discard anything contrary to the gospel du jour.
    Point 5: I also have up to the second tier of Pilot mastery specialization maxed out. Turn rate is important in a D'D, as it translates to Time on Target, which translates into DPS. My D'D has a turnrate of 16 and rising as I upgrade stuff. Similarly, the D'D has only 3 tac console slots., you should be able to get a lot more out of an Overload build with 4 or 5 tac slots in a different ship and reach your DPS to 30k.
    Point 6: Unless you are being very deliberate about which weapon you fire for your Overload, DO NOT use omni arrays with an Overload build. You don't want to "waste" an overload on a weapon that does so little (comparatively) base damage, as Overload will use whatever Beam weapon is next to initiate a firing cycle after you trigger the Overload. If you want to run an all-beam build, you might want to practice timings. Personally, as you can see, I'd rather just use turrets to match the DBB's.




    Original Post:
    I'm working up a pretty canon-appearing Derpidex build with Plasma beams.
    It's also peculiar in a few ways, that are relatively unimportant.

    I'm a little intimidated by the number of new rep sets that are available, and I don't know what to put on it.
    While the spreadsheet guide I posted up a year or so ago is helpful, it doesn't help me contrast the new sets. I was thinking of updating it, but I'm not sure anyone else actually used the thing, so why bother...
    Anyway, I'm just a little boggled by options right now, which is a really nice state to be in for a game.

    But my real question is, what rep set/non-rep items should I be gunning for, for my shield/singularity core/impulse engine/deflector?
    My priorities are:
    #1 Turn rate
    #2 Weapon Power
    #3 Weapon Crit Severity (not chance, the pecularities of this build make chance irrelevant)
    #4 Hull Regen/Strength
    #5 Shield Regen/Strength

    I don't care about any science skills or anything else, as to my knowledge, particle generators does not do anything for the plasma burn DoT's. This build is peculiar, but relatively straightforward. I do use an Energy Syphon on it, so FlowCap is appreciated, but far from a concern. And I'd actually love to swap the Syphon out for something else if I can get my weapon energy consistently at 125 without it.

    I took first place at CCN with mark X and XI (non-rep) gear earlier today, so I'm pretty confident in my build already... Just need something other than common and uncommon gear low-level gear on it. Wink
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    #2
    I'm not aware of your specific build, but in general we want a Singularity/Warp Core with the [AMP] mod, which gives +3.3% per subsystem above 75 power, and it multiplies itself. Next we want [W-> ], because our Weapon Power is always highest (unless you're a Science Ship) so we get the biggest bonus, and we want [ ->A] because the T4 Nukara traits are the strongest reputation traits when you have good Aux power. If you're running Aux To Batt, that obviously doesn't apply (but AMP + Nukara trait are two of the major reasons to not go A2B unless you have to).

    Next the Deflector/Engine/Shields:

    We want Resilient shields because for every other type of shield, we take 90% incoming damage to shields and 10% to hull, but only 90% to shields and 5% to hull with a Resilient. So we negate 5% of incoming damage entirely.

    For DPS, the basic method is to have 2xCSV or 2xFAW in sync with Attack Patterns. Either 2xAPB, 1xAPB 2xAPO, or 1xAPB 1xAPO if you have 1 Zemok/Rugal (for FAW) or 2 Zemok/Rugal (for CSV). When you're cycling attack patterns like that, the Romulan Engines are preferred for the +30 to Attack Patterns Skill.

    This leaves Deflector and Shields, and the Nukara Shields are Resilient while the 2-piece set bonus is a damage bonus (and will repair disabled weapons), so the usual set is Nukara/Romulan/Nukara.

    This is of course not specific to your list of priorities, but to my knowledge none of the D/E/S sets have that much of an impact on any of that.
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    #3
     –  Last edited by starsrift; Mon 09 Mar, 2015 8:45 PM.
    Attack pattern skill is not a concern for me.

    If I was ignoring the new rep stuff, I was actually thinking of running the Omega Force engines with their impressive +22 turn rate and the Adapted KHG (MACO) Deflector with either one of the associated shields, both are impressive.

    Just wondered if some of the new rep stuff would be better for my priorities, and of course none of the old Borg stuff includes warp/singularity core items. But the Nukara deflector is pretty nice, too. Hm. I don't care too much for the 2pc Nukara bonus (less than 1/10th of a tac console), though, and the shield is not particularly impressive.

    And of course, if I went with the Borg stuff, I had a follow-up question - given the hardness of the new Advanced difficulty settings, is it actually better to buy the MK XI stuff and upgrade it via the upgrade system rather than try for those neural processors?
    Or is the MK XI stuff even still available...
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    #4
    The Omega shield is not Resilient, so if you're going Omega Engines, you'd be better off with the MACO Deflector and Shields. The MACO Shields are the best shields when you don't have a Plasmonic Leech console, but if you do they'll negate each other.

    You can't get Mk XI anymore. BNPs are now also available in Defera, but the ASTFs aren't that difficult if you're pulling 7k DPS and in a competent team.
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    #5
     –  Last edited by starsrift; Mon 09 Mar, 2015 10:37 PM.
    MACO shield doesn't combine with Leech? That's the weirdest interaction! The leech is outgoing damage, the shield is incoming. Though as a programmer, I can see how that'd happen... Is that just a bug or an intended feature? :O

    Edit: Google's aid for the STO-Forums suggests that the leech overrides the shield as of last August. Which is fine for me, because I'm really interested in the MACO 2pc bonus. I might have to test it. Actually, I'm not even sure that my derpidex uses the leech, though I'm sure it does. If it doesn't, it will soon.
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    #6
    Intentional. Cryptic does not want you to be able to stack benefits from both abilities.
    Daedalus
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    #7
    I wouldn't trust Leech to override MACO. Last I heard of it, when you get a Leech stack it knocks off MACO, and when you get a MACO stack it knocks off Leech.
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    #8
    Ah, intentional, of course. The jerks. Wink

    Interesting. When I load into game, the stats are nowhere near StoWiki's. The KHG engine seems to offer the best turnrate boost, which is fine for me, since the warbird could definitely use the power bonuses.
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    #9
    It does depend on your skills, Engine Power, and throttle.
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    #10
    I think the Omega Force Engine has been nerfed into the ground....the Romulan Prototype is def. the way to go, I think the Undine is the highest turn rate atm but to be honest you are gonna be giving up a lot of DPS going for excessive turn rate. I could be wrong but I think that the 22 turn rate is a thing of the past.

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    #11
    Got a Singularity Core today. [Elite Fleet Reinforced Singularity Core Mk XII [SingA] [OLoad] [WCap] [AMP] [SSS]], which is the one I think I wanted. Would've really liked an [EPS] instead of a [SingA], but they don't have those.

    I'm not sure the T4 nukara traits will be useful, or for that matter the [AMP] mod itself, but the [CON] mod isn't any better... Warbirds are so power-starved. Have to see what else we get up to!

    If you're curious, my build is here, but still very much in progress, including a probable shuffle of boff abilities. The rear turrets are in fact also caustics, but the STO Academy planner doesn't have those items as options! :O
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    #12
    What Doffs are you running? With 2 Conn Officers with reduced TT time reduction + starship pattern buffs and 2/3 DCE officers to reduce emergency power cooldown you should be able to get rid of 1 Tac Team and one EP2W. Also a doff like Gerrato that has a chance to boost all energy levels by 25 when using an emergency power will help if you are having issues with power levels.

    If you are just into severity then fleet vulnerability exploiters [+pla] would be a good bet, but the locators are the better option. An Omni Plasma beam and a KCB, plus an experimental romulan plasma would help with your dps and your power levels, and an exotic particle field exciter with either a ShHp or ShReg or ResAll would help a lot with your shields and hull.
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    #13
    I'm still experimenting with the doofs.

    Currently I'm running two EWP doofs (reduce cd on beam abilities when not subsystem targeting), one EWP doof (30% chance to ignore X% shields) and two DCE's. Sadly, no purples yet. The reduce CD doofs seem to let me get more BO's off, or at least more BO2's off, and if that's what I settle for, I'll swap the BO2 and APB2 for APB1 and BO3. Alternate selections include taking out the reduce CD doofs and putting in two more of the ignore shield EWP ones, or one and a warp core engineer with the specialty to buff my power levels on use of EPt(X). Gonna be a long time before I can open that sixth doof slot.
    I probably can swap out the EPtW2 for something else, but I'm not confident in my doofs yet. I do wind up using it every few cycles. Probably once I purchase some purples.

    The twin tac teams are my least concern. The only other thing I'd slot there anyway is probably an HE1 instead. What I really wanna get rid of is the Syphon in the Lt.Com. Sci slot and get a shield heal instead, and then drop the EPtS for an ETeam, but that's gonna depend on what I can get my power levels up to.

    Getting the ExpRPBA is gonna help power at least, though it's gonna be interesting to see if it hurts or aids my DPS. I'll be slotting it in the rear for off-angle firing, as I'll probably really only want to fire it for the special attack mode. I might end up tossing it though, because it'll interfere with priming my main fore banks. Depends on where my turn rate ends up, but I'm sure it's only gonna take one 30-50k hit channelled through the fore, accidentally channeled through the ExpRPBA for half damage to make me angrily toss the thing as trash. A 2-5k special attack every two minutes is peanuts to my 30k+ every 10-15s, after all.

    The KCB, of course, doesn't look canon, so it's out. I'm not sure about the Omni Plasmas, either, aren't they gonna steal my Overloads from my fore banks and whiff it? Might get some rom plasma turrets later on though, just for the DR procs, if I find myself swimming in dil for some reason.

    Your console suggestions confuse me greatly. I was planning on exploiters for the tac consoles and embassy +plasma damage (threat-scaling) shield emitters. Why would I want the others?
    Soooo much more EC to go, dumping to make fleet credits... :O
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    #14
     –  Last edited by Cranker; Wed 11 Mar, 2015 5:44 PM.
    Omnis have basically the same DPS as normal arrays since they are unique.

    The reason behind getting the locators over the exploiters has been an ongoing issue and usually the locators are better because mathematically you are getting double the bonus. Weapon bonuses, CrtH is worth the same as the bonus on the Locators, but CrtD is worth double the damage of the Exploiters, ie you get 2% crit per CtrH and 2% crit on the locator, while you get 20% severity on CrtD but only 10% severity on the Exploiters. (This is based on MK XIV Epic to keep it simple) That's why people prefer CrtD on weapons and Locators.

    As for using 1 tac team, you get extra bonuses for attack patterns from the doffs, and you can reuse it as soon as it wears off. Also since you have 1 as a universal you could put your engi team there. Or a Sci team.

    I understand your wanting more severity because of BO but are you totally against FAW/FAW? KCB even without the buffs and an Omni plasma would both be a lot more dps than turrets. People think Omni is less powerful but it's basically an array with an [arc] mod.

    **Most of this information I have sponged from Dark so I can't take full responsibility for it but he helped me up my dps about 8k just on doff use to reorganize my boff abilities.

    ** ok I just read the KCB non-canon thing and that's understandable. The experimental romulan beam doesn't use energy though so it's worth having, and I'd consider that canon.

    Also I don't know if I asked this, but are you using all Romulan Boffs with Superior Romulan Operative? If not, then look into that, it's one of the reasons Romulans are so OP at the moment.
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    #15
    The point of getting rid of the second Tac Team is that it allows you to go 2xBO and 2xAPB, as opposed to only having APB on half your BOs. Do note that you'll get more DPS out of 2xFAW than 2xBO.

    You can't drop EPtS. You need both EPtW and EPtS so you can fire off one of them every 15s, which with 3 ranks in the Starship Batteries skill will result in constant uptime on the EPS Manifold Efficiency trait's buff to power.

    You do need Sci Team, it'll clear the more annoying pacify debuffs that have shown up since Delta Rising.

    We generally want Locators because they're better for our overall DPS, but that is expecting the use of FAW, which is also better for DPS. A Surgical Strike ship would use Exploiters, and I guess Beam Overload? The thing is, Beam Overload as a general DPS ability really sucks. A Romulan should be running at around 30% Critical Chance, so a single guaranteed boosted Critical Hit every 15s is really meh.

    Here's an explanation from Vel'gon about CrtD vs CrtH and Locators vs Exploiters:
    There's no "golden ratio." There do, however, exist a few different cases where you're chosing between crth and crtd - weapons and tac consoles being the most obvious of those. Since, on weapons, the ratio is 1:10, and on tac consoles, the ratio of 1:5 (of crth/crtd granted), you could get (such as in surgical strikes) such a ratio of crth to crtd that you actually want crth on both. It's basically impossible to get to the ratio where you'd want CrtD on both, except in the case of Beam: Overload based scenarios, where crth gives you no tangible benefit since you already have 100% crth on that one shot.

    But, anyway, what you do is you take the ratio as a fraction, such as 1/10 for weapons, or 1/5 for tac consoles. Then, you take your own crth and crtd before those, call it 20/120 (keeping in mind, you often have hidden crth and crtd via starship energy weapon specialzation that isn't displayed because it doesn't buff everything), and you make that a fraction. Let's simplify that to 1/6. And what you do from there is take your existing ratio, 1/6, and compare it to the choice in question - let's go weapons first, which happens to be 1/10. Since the existing ratio is higher (1/6>1/10), you pick CrtD. But, when you go look at tac consoles, which are 1/5, 1/6<1/5, so we pick the CrtH tac consoles.

    And while some people may have a crtd/crth ratio of way 35/140, which is 1/4, let's pick weapons first (since you know for sure you're grabbing crtd weapons), and look then. With crtdx4 weapons, you're not at 35/220, which is 7/44, or roughly 16%. If you add even 5 MK XIV Epic tac consoles to that, you get an extra 9.8% crth, or ~20% crth/crtd - pretty much the break even point still.
    If you're going for performance, you want Locators and FAW. If it's for fun to see big critical hit numbers, go ahead with BO and Exploiters.