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Post ID: 301681
#31
Posted Thu 26 May, 2016 11:02 PM
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Last edited by Chase; Fri 27 May, 2016 12:17 AM.
Do you think that perhaps that is only applicable in certain situations or that perhaps non-violent means should be the first option with violent means being a last resort and therefore being something people have to be prepared for?
I whole heartily believe this. A peaceful resolution should always be attempted first. In the military, we train for years to become experts at things we hope we never have to do for real. We hope every single conflict can be ended through diplomacy. If it cannot, then through an armed show of force deterrent and then as a very last resort, direct action. I think there has also been a mis-communication on being violent versus armed. I believe they are completely different. I think lethal weapons have the potential to bring about an overall more peaceful resolution through deterrence, once previous unarmed attempts fail. When a civilian population has no access to lethal weapons, and once their unarmed demonstrations fail, they are completely reliant on outside influence or they just keep living the way they do, neither of which is an ideal situation. At least that is my take on it.
Question: At what point do the civilians of a nation earn the right or lose the right to control their own destiny; without it being influenced by a more powerful outside nation, possibly with its own agenda?
"I disapprove of what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
- Evelyn Beatrice Hall, The Friends of Voltaire, 1906
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Posted Fri 27 May, 2016 3:10 PM
The brief digression into history brings up an interesting question - when was the last time an armed populace independently and successfully overthrew and replaced their government? Glancing at Wikipedia, it's difficult to find any that weren't resolved from foreign or domestic military intervention. It actually looks like the most recent incident was actually Iran in 1979, forming the Islamic Republic still in place today.
The idea that an armed citizenry can overthrow tyranny is a uniquely American one, outdated by over two centuries and now based more on violent bravado than reality. As many insurgent groups have discovered over the last three decades, you cannot effectively stand against a modern military with air superiority and armed vehicles, even with an abundant supply of RPG-7s.
There are places in the U.S. which require people to own and carry weapons. Violent crime in those places is virtually non-existent.
I've seen those places cited before in gun control discussions, and they've been soundly refuted as supporting the idea that the legislation reduced violent crime - the rates actually followed the historical trend of the rest of the country, and statistically the legislation made no difference.
That being said, it's also worth noting that while the laws were passed, they were never enforced. Which makes them worthless as examples for either side of the gun control debate.
(As an aside, I'd like to point out that while I've been attacking gun-machismo based justifications for "yes", I actually voted "yes" - because they're important as tools for things like hunting and self-defense. However the power fantasy that ownership gives is dangerous, leading to situations like the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge which had absolutely zero chance of success, but a good chance of getting them and innocent people killed. You don't really see those situations occur in countries where people don't think they can actually outgun the government.)
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Posted Sat 28 May, 2016 12:22 AM
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Posted Sat 28 May, 2016 1:00 AM
Lethal weapon usage will always be controversial topic. I found this debate very in lighting in all the different perspectives. However I think we side tracked a bit to the original intend of the debate haha.