[Allan Hood]

Let's say ten Klingons vs ten Jem'hadar, who would win? I think the Klingons would have the most fun haha but who would win?

[Tain]

I would think 10 seasoned Klingon warriors could easily best 10 Jem'Hadar warriors in a fair fight. They live what, 10..20 years? A Klingon could have easily double that experience and still be in their prime.

I think the Klingons would win If we assume the best Klingon warriors in the Empire are comparable to say Worf, Kurn or Martok, and that the best most experienced Jem'Hadar are comparable to say Ikat'ika.

Ether way, the battle would be glorious and surely would require a song or two to be sung.

[Christopher Halsey]

As much as I do like Klingons I think the Jem'Hadar would win.

Jem'Hadar are stronger, more durable and have better vision than Klingons, they also have the ability to shroud themselves rendering themselves invisible both to the eye and sensors which is a massive tactical advantage. On top of that they don't need to sleep, eat or drink. Whilst a kar'takin is likely equal to a bat'leth, Jem'Hadar energy weapons likely give them an edge in that they deliver an anti-coagulant, if the shot doesn't kill you outright you quickly bleed out.

The Jem'Hadar have no interest in honour or personal glory to inhibit them, they are just fanatical about winning.

[Avenger]

I think it depends on whether they are in hand to hand combat or open battle. Hand to hand definitely the Klingons but in open battle it could be anyone's game!

[Endeavour]

Jem'Hadar are effectively augments, made to be strong. If the Klingon's can beat them, the founders would probably just make the next batch of augments stronger as a response.

Aside from that, it all depends on who's writing the script. Riker had no problem thorwing a Klingon around, despite Klingons supposedly being around 5 times stronger than humans. :p

[Allan Hood]

I would think 10 seasoned Klingon warriors could easily best 10 Jem'Hadar warriors in a fair fight. They live what, 10..20 years? A Klingon could have easily double that experience and still be in their prime.

I think the Klingons would win If we assume the best Klingon warriors in the Empire are comparable to say Worf, Kurn or Martok, and that the best most experienced Jem'Hadar are comparable to say Ikat'ika.

Either way, the battle would be glorious and surely would require a song or two to be sung.

I'm in full agreement, exactly how I was thinking.

As much as I do like Klingons I think the Jem'Hadar would win.

Jem'Hadar are stronger, more durable and have better vision than Klingons, they also have the ability to shroud themselves rendering themselves invisible both to the eye and sensors which is a massive tactical advantage. On top of that they don't need to sleep, eat or drink. Whilst a kar'takin is likely equal to a bat'leth, Jem'Hadar energy weapons likely give them an edge in that they deliver an anti-coagulant, if the shot doesn't kill you outright you quickly bleed out.

The Jem'Hadar have no interest in honour or personal glory to inhibit them, they are just fanatical about winning.

What about hand-to-hand without their weapons? I think Jem'Hadar would win if they used all their weapons.

As for their honor, Ikat'ika was killed for his honor because he refused to kill Worf. So was Ikat'ika an outlier or an example of how other Jem'Hadar would behave?

I think it depends on whether they are in hand to hand combat or open battle. Hand to hand definitely the Klingons but in open battle it could be anyone's game!

I'm thinking if it was hand-to-hand it'd be the Klingons, but with Jem'Hadar weapons, it'd be the Jem'Hadar.

Jem'Hadar are effectively augments, made to be strong. If the Klingon's can beat them, the founders would probably just make the next batch of augments stronger as a response.

Aside from that, it all depends on who's writing the script. Riker had no problem thorwing a Klingon around, despite Klingons supposedly being around 5 times stronger than humans. :p

True, but Riker caught him off guard; the Klingon underestimated him, that was the whole point of that, otherwise I think Riker would have been ripped in half.

That brings up something else, in episodes where it showed Starfleet vs Klingons, they would be tossed around, especially by Sisko. Klingons should have been harder to beat.

[Christopher Halsey]

What about hand-to-hand without their weapons? I think Jem'Hadar would win if they used all their weapons.

Without their weapons I think the Jem'Hadar still have the edge, they are stronger and more durable.

As for their honor, Ikat'ika was killed for his honor because he refused to kill Worf. So was Ikat'ika an outlier or an example of how other Jem'Hadar would behave?

Whilst his actions could be viewed as honourable I don't think honour was his motivation. He states that he could kill Worf, which was true, but that he recognised that killing Worf was not the same as beating Worf and that Worf wouldn't admit defeat even if it meant dying, he therefore saw no reason in killing Worf as it wouldn't achieve anything.

[Allan Hood]

Whilst his actions could be viewed as honourable I don't think honour was his motivation. He states that he could kill Worf, which was true, but that he recognised that killing Worf was not the same as beating Worf and that Worf wouldn't admit defeat even if it meant dying, he therefore saw no reason in killing Worf as it wouldn't achieve anything.

Even though he's a Jem'Hadar, isn't it honorable that he didn't kill Worf? Right, he could kill Worf and did kill others, so why not Worf? What made Worf different? He didn't kill Worf out of respect, due to honor, even though Ikat'ika may not really understand the meaning of honor. Ikat'ika spared Worf's life out of respect.

[Christopher Halsey]

The only reason he gave for not killing Worf was because he no longer found interest in doing so. Whilst the possibility exists that he respected Worf that doesn't automatically mean he was honourable.

If he were truly honourable he likely wouldn't engage in combat against injured opponents such as Martok who thanks to him only had one eye and Worf who had numerous broken bones.

Regardless, Jem'Hadar appear superior to Klingons in pretty much every regard, the only exception being when Worf needs to beat them for plot reasons.

[Dark]

I'm pretty sure the Klingons as a whole suffered from The Worf Effect as time went on.

[Bridger]

From all the episodes so far Jem'Hadar have not been demonstrated to be stronger than Humans or Klingons their only benefits lies in that they don't need to sleep and to eat.

[Allan Hood]

The only reason he gave for not killing Worf was because he no longer found interest in doing so. Whilst the possibility exists that he respected Worf that doesn't automatically mean he was honourable.

If he were truly honourable he likely wouldn't engage in combat against injured opponents such as Martok who thanks to him only had one eye and Worf who had numerous broken bones.

Regardless, Jem'Hadar appear superior to Klingons in pretty much every regard, the only exception being when Worf needs to beat them for plot reasons.

honor : respect that is given to someone who is admired, Merriam-Webster Dictionary, that's how I see it, too.

Right, he's probably not honorable like a human or a Klingon, but it seems he still showed Worf honor. Right, plot reasons trump everything haha.

I'm pretty sure the Klingons as a whole suffered from The Worf Effect as time went on.

That's hilarious and so true. Thinking of all the times Worf was beaten by other Klingons, unknown aliens, Q, Sisko, Dax...goes on and on...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LnwLn9vnKo

[Christopher Halsey]

From all the episodes so far Jem'Hadar have not been demonstrated to be stronger than Humans or Klingons their only benefits lies in that they don't need to sleep and to eat.

I believe the superior physical abilities of Jem'Hadar where mentioned in 'The Abandoned', 'To The Death', 'Favor The Bold' and 'Soldiers of the Empire'. On-screen they lose whenever the plot demands it of them as with every race.

Aside from their physicality and the fact that they don't need to sleep, drink or eat they are also immune to energy weapon stun settings, can force their way through force fields and can shroud themselves to appear invisible, all helpful abilities in a fight.

honor : respect that is given to someone who is admired, Merriam-Webster Dictionary, that's how I see it, too.

Right, he's probably not honorable like a human or a Klingon, but it seems he still showed Worf honor. Right, plot reasons trump everything haha.

Whilst it could be argued that he showed Worf some respect I still don't necessarily believe that possible one act proves honour. If he were so honourable would he have started the fight in the first place knowing the fact that Worf was in no fit state to fight? Would he have kept fighting Martok after he had lost an eye?

Regardless if one Jem'Hadar could be argued to have demonstrated a single instance of being honourable the intentions of the writers were for the Jem'Hadar to not be honourable in an effort to further differentiate them from Klingons, "the Jem'Hadar deliberately had no honor nor any concern for glory, instead caring only about winning and killing." - Robert Hewitt Wolfe, Star Trek: The Magazine Volume 1, Issue 13.

If we do want to say that in this single instance we did have an honourable Jem'Hadar it was clearly an exception to their normal behaviour.

[Allan Hood]

I believe the superior physical abilities of Jem'Hadar where mentioned in 'The Abandoned', 'To The Death', 'Favor The Bold' and 'Soldiers of the Empire'. On-screen they lose whenever the plot demands it of them as with every race.

Aside from their physicality and the fact that they don't need to sleep, drink or eat they are also immune to energy weapon stun settings, can force their way through force fields and can shroud themselves to appear invisible, all helpful abilities in a fight.



Whilst it could be argued that he showed Worf some respect I still don't necessarily believe that possible one act proves honour. If he were so honourable would he have started the fight in the first place knowing the fact that Worf was in no fit state to fight? Would he have kept fighting Martok after he had lost an eye?

Regardless if one Jem'Hadar could be argued to have demonstrated a single instance of being honourable the intentions of the writers were for the Jem'Hadar to not be honourable in an effort to further differentiate them from Klingons, "the Jem'Hadar deliberately had no honor nor any concern for glory, instead caring only about winning and killing." - Robert Hewitt Wolfe, Star Trek: The Magazine Volume 1, Issue 13.

If we do want to say that in this single instance we did have an honourable Jem'Hadar it was clearly an exception to their normal behaviour.

Right, I'm seeing it as the Jem'Hadar are capable of honor but it's going to take someone like Worf to pull it out of them haha, which I also think the writers were getting at.

[Mobeer]

Jem'Hadar to win. If Kira can beat up one Klingon, get stabbed in the side and still knock out the knife wielder, then the Jem'Hadar would win with ease.