[Christopher Halsey]

COMMUNITY DEBATE

Bribery

Bribery is the act of giving money, goods or other forms of recompense to a recipient in exchange for an alteration of their behaviour (to the benefit/interest of the giver) that the recipient might not otherwise alter.

Many types of payments or favours can constitute bribes: tip, gift, sop, perk, skim, favour, discount, waived fee/ticket, free food, free ad, free trip, free tickets, sweetheart deal, kickback/payback, funding, inflated sale of an object or property, lucrative contract, donation, campaign contribution, fundraiser, sponsorship/backing, higher paying job, stock options, secret commission, or promotion.

Whilst bribery is seen as a bad thing it's definition and how acceptable it is differs vastly depending on where you are. Political campaign contributions in the form of cash, for example, are considered criminal acts of bribery in some countries, while in the United States, provided they adhere to election law, are legal. Tipping, as another example, is considered bribery in some societies, while in others the two concepts may not be interchangeable. This is further complicated by the fact that in this day and age many transactions take place involving people from different countries.

Today we will be discussing bribery and debating whether or not it is ever acceptable. To take part please answer the simple poll question and then make a post explaining which way you voted and your reasoning for voting that way.

[aceman67]

I'm a security guard IRL, so the answer is simply no.

If I accept a bribe, I lose my job, I lose my security licence (and along with it the possibility of ever getting that license ever again), and depending on what that bribe is for, I could wind up in court or worse.

If you're in a position of authority, you have to ask yourself some questions: Is it worth losing your reputation? Is it worth losing your job? Is it worth jail/prison time for? Is it worth being fined?

As someone who used to work in the service industry for over 11 years, I don't consider Tipping a bribe. For 99% of wait staff in North America, Tips are your primary source of income, as the government has allowed employers to pay wait staff less than minimum wage so that tips for good service are an incentive to do your job better. If you don't tip in a resturant where this is the case, you're literally taking money away from someone who needs it.

So let that be a hint to those that are travelling to North America, do a quick google search for the minimum wage regulations for the area you're going to, just because Tipping isn't done where you're from isn't a good enough excuse to not tip and be seen as a scrouge. I keep hearing Europeans online complaining about 'rude Americans', well, same goes for you guys on this side of the pond.

[Christopher Halsey]

The point about tipping is an interesting one.

Aceman, if someone were from a country where tipping was considered a form of bribery, rather than just not being the social norm, would you stick to your view that bribery is never acceptable or in that situation do you think it would be since it would be in keeping with what is expected in the country you were visiting?

[aceman67]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do, so far as your personal morals allow. If Tipping were considered faux pas, I wouldn't tip.

But if that were the case, then there should exist a situation where tipping wouldn't be needed (IE wait staff are paid a compensatory wage).

[Bar'ol]

I took this in a different perspective. In the level of what Aceman is talking I think bribery shouldn't be allowed, however in making "deals" with criminals and terrorist I find this option better then down right torture the guy for information. This can go from protective services to lowering sentience if they help type of bribery.

[Avenger]

Bribery is unfortunately when society fails to think they can be on the same level
As everyone else and demands unfair advantage, they are cowards i think!

[aceman67]

*snip* Deals with Terrorists *snip*

Only responding to that point: The only deals with terrorists that should be made are with a slug of hot lead travelling 1,126 feet per second.

[Bar'ol]

Only responding to that point: The only deals with terrorists that should be made are with a slug of hot lead travelling 1,126 feet per second.

I wouldnt disagree but sadly its been done.

[JCarrill0]

I always tip my waiter/Waitress. I worked in food service. $2.13 is the normal waitress pay, so Tips is primary source of income.

Also I was raised its good manner to tip your waitress. If i ever go to a Drive in, (such as here in Texas we have a place called Sonic Drive in) the person comes out on roller skates to bring me my drinks such as cherry slushes for my kiddos. I'm not sure their wages, but I'm sure its like $5.00 if not minimum wage (which is $7.25 where I live). I also pay and leave at least $1 tip, if not rounding to the next highest dollar. (such as 18.38, leaving them $20 and telling them to keep it) for main places such as restaurants,. i still tip, where as some places i go doesn't accept tips since gratuity is included in the meal.

So again Tips I have never heard or ever considered being a Bribe.

[Keenan]

I would consider bribery is basically where you pay someone to essentially steal, or aid in stealing from another. Like paying a Security Guard to turn the other way so one could steal something. So bribery is one caveat of another crime for the most point.
Granted one could argue that political contributions could be a bribe, though you would usually need to have something spelled out in an agreement for that to be considered a bribe.
in the restaurant industry here in U.S. a tip is for providing good service. Where the server makes them self available for extra orders, making sure their drinks are full and food arrives on time. A bribe would be where you would order an 9 ounce (.25 kg) sirloin and the server gives you a 20 ounce porterhouse. Instead of paying $60 for the meal, you would pay $20 for the sirloin and bribe $20 for the porterhouse thus saving $20.

In this case you are having the server (and probably the chef) essentially stealing from the restaurant.

[Kains]

Point of note: Tipping isn't quite as essential in Canada, our wait staff are required to be paid minimum wage at least (Usually around $10 an hour).

Having said that, minimum wage is no way to get ahead, so those folks really rely on tips. I don't want to get into the subject of percentage, since I think that would actually derail the discussion further, but I know it's a job I wouldn't want to do and tip accordingly.

Had one co-worker joke that I should be called Doctor for all the young waitresses I helped put through medical school So yeah, I don't think tips count as bribery in North America at least.

Personally I think bribery is reprehensible, and it personally drives me crazy to see systems circumvented in such a manner. However, I also realise it is simply the way things are done in some places. It's been decades since I've been to Mexico, but I still remember my dad having to pay multiple 'bribes' just to avoid having his car impounded because of corrupt cops. It was a very strange experience.

[Christopher Halsey]

I took this in a different perspective. In the level of what Aceman is talking I think bribery shouldn't be allowed, however in making "deals" with criminals and terrorist I find this option better then down right torture the guy for information. This can go from protective services to lowering sentience if they help type of bribery.

That's a really interesting point there Gunges.

Whilst I think most people would probably think doing deals with criminals as unattractive you could be in a situation where a bribe could save lives, I think in quite a few countries it is acceptable for law enforcement or judicial systems to offer incentives for cooperation, which effectively is a bribe.

Could it be argued that whilst we don't like bribes in some situations they are a necessary evil?

[Christopher Halsey]

Thinking more about bribery could we consider things like store loyalty cards to be a form of bribery?

Spend X amount and we'll give you X many points which you can use to obtain something, buy X number of cups of Coffee and get one free etc.

Obviously the reason places do these sorts of deals isn't out of the goodness of their heart, it's too incentivize you in to either shopping with them more or shopping with a competitor less, could that be considered a type of bribe?

[Bar'ol]

Thinking more about bribery could we consider things like store loyalty cards to be a form of bribery?

Spend X amount and we'll give you X many points which you can use to obtain something, buy X number of cups of Coffee and get one free etc.

Obviously the reason places do these sorts of deals isn't out of the goodness of their heart, it's too incentivize you in to either shopping with them more or shopping with a competitor less, could that be considered a type of bribe?

As im the only one for it I suppose I better respond hehe. Well in that case bribery is all around us. Advertising sublime messages comes to mind. hehe. But to answer your earlier question I think it is a necessary evil when we are dealing with other peoples lives or society.

[Christopher Halsey]

Personally I think bribery is reprehensible, and it personally drives me crazy to see systems circumvented in such a manner. However, I also realise it is simply the way things are done in some places. It's been decades since I've been to Mexico, but I still remember my dad having to pay multiple 'bribes' just to avoid having his car impounded because of corrupt cops. It was a very strange experience.

That's a pretty good example of where you might not like bribery but you would probably rather go along with it than stick to your principles. Stranded in a foreign country with no transportation or 'recognising the service of local law enforcement' and keeping your car, I can see why someone might pick option two lol.