[Kerry Malone]

Guys,

I think its time we seriously consider stepping out of the Devilbear Alliance. This war with FETISH seems to be going on and on, and has no signs of stopping anytime soon.

We are the significant member in this alliance, having the most members, yet it is the minority who are the Executors of our alliance, who are keeping this WarDec going, yet we're the one's suffering the most from it.

I am therefore putting up a vote to determine whether we should remain or leave the alliance - and the results of this vote will determine if KSD leaves or stays.

Please review our Killboard information if you want to see how bad things are: https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98242101/

[thexpl0r3r]

I will vote in favor of leaving our current Alliance, however, before we actually click leave button I believe we should approach Alliance leadership to address all the reasons behind our decision and to see whether the fact that biggest alliance member plans to leave will change anything, Most likely it won't, but I think we should not burn the bridges.

The Alliance itself apparently has some internal issues. Lord Razpataz will be away from the game for a while, two corps left the Devilbear, and also Wiking Brigade with Admiral Silva left the Warriors Alliance.

Whatever we do I don't think we should do it the "Cartman's way".

[thexpl0r3r]

Until we resolve this issue, I can haul anything we need from Jita or any other trade hub in Hisec either with out of corp character or with a scout and blockade runner depending on what we need to transport.

[Mark Okuda]

I do not agree with leaving the alliance. Fetish is not a problem if you stay out of where there congregate. I don't see a need to head to Jita when you can go to Dodixie. Done a lot of mission running all while being war dec by Fetish and didn't have any problem.

[Noram]

Lets keep this as a discussion for now. Kneejerk reactions aren't the way to go when it comes to decisions like this. If people still want to give their opinions please feel free, but I think putting up a poll was a bit too hasty and could lead to panic.

[Connas Soth]

I think we need to understand, that leaving this Alliance is not going solve the Wardec problems. We were constantly Wardec'd before we joined this Alliance. Being in systems far away from home, in Non-PvP ships, or simply having the numbers against you, is going to result in losses. IMHO, there is no reason we should be out in Jita where this enemy, who is no where near our home systems, in the first place. Dying to the enemy like FETISH just pays for them to fund the next War-Dec. Yes, those guys are 100% asshats. But until now, the War hasn't affected daily operations to the corp in a measurable way.

IF we do decide to leave, we just need to make sure we have a plan in mind. Will we join a new Alliance? Will we stay alone as a corp? Will we move? If (When) we get war dec'd again, are people going to learn how to PvP and fight, or leave the corp or quit until the war is done.

We also aren't asking ourselves, 'How many wars are we NOT getting from Merc groups because they are friendly with Devil Dogs?'

If the corp wants to leave the Alliance for good reasons, like the fact the Alliance doesn't really communicate with us, or organize anti-ganking fleets, then that I 100% understand. Those are legit reasons and those should be addressed. But how much effort have we as a corp put in to address these issues?

Connas

[Three of Seven]

I get that areas should be avoided during war, but when you keep getting declared upon by the same group, over and over, you are effectively locked out of part of the universe. That's not good, especially when it's not our fault this war keeps going, we haven't had a single say in the war, something needs to be done, Jita is a massive trade hub, more so than Dodixe, so being cut off from that for weeks/months is bad.

The alliance needs to do something to stop FETISH from being a major problem, I get that there is extortion going on for surrender, so why not use some money to get some mercenaries or the PvP players going in and causing problems for FETISH. That's the only way the constant wars can end, otherwise, they will just keep going, loot or no loot, I don't think FETISH are low on cash.

[Adster94]

I do think that there needs to be a discussion, moreover than just a vote to get us out. The reason I voted yes, was because I feel it might be a good idea to consider moving alliance, or at least reviewing our position within the alliance. There are definitely pros and cons to leaving, ideally it would be a good idea to stay in the alliance for the reason we won't be on our own, but maybe we should work on doing some operations to combat them - maybe even work with the alliance to do something about it?

If there is a dialogue going on between us and them, as I think Connas mentioned something about discussing elements with their leader - especially not a fan of the idea of being forced out due to a couple of kills, we aren't the ones who started this war. Organising group attacks on them might be worthwhile, but considering several people have left our corp for various reasons and started their own - who are mainly combat oriented, we haven't got too many people to work with. Any chance we can actually bring those other members back into Kassa?

[Kerry Malone]

The whole point of being in an alliance is to have mutual support within EVE. This varies from defensive to commercial and all that is in between. I won't argue that being part of Devilbear initially stopped the daily gank wardecs against us that we used to experience. However, we are now suffering from the fact that there is no support mechanism within the alliance we're in.

I'm sorry, but the solution of "Oh, just don't go to Jita" is not to put too fine a point on it, not even remotely helpful. Dodixie is great for most things, but Jita has EVERYTHING in this game, and usually at slightly better prices (not always I grant) than in Dodixie. If we huddle up like little scared sheep into a small corner of the EVE universe, we're denying ourselves the richness of the EVE experience. Plus, I would like to point out that it wasn't that long ago that there was a FETISH player stalking around Dodixie picking off our people.

If the Corp's solution is to dig its head into the sand and hope the situation will resolve itself, and subsequently prohibit its members from travelling into the Citadel region - expect our member numbers to drop. If you want to talk to the Alliance leadership and address our concerns, I think that should be done before we consider leaving. However, I do not think that the opinion of people who feel that Devilbears have let us down should be ignored.

[Kerry Malone]

A. Start looking at new Alliances that will suit our needs.

This is probably the better solution at the moment. There are plenty out there, and if we do our homework, we can find one that actually offers both protection for us and support for our industrial efforts.

B. We can go our own way, and start training people to PVP and protect in time of war.

I don't really subscribe to this idea, as we couldn't rely 100% on this sort of protection. Bigger is always better, and going it alone is not a good recipe.

C. Stay in the Alliance, and not go to Caldari Space where FETISH operate from.

This is the worst solution, and as I stated previously, would result in considerably negative reactions from members. The only way this would work is if negotiation with Devilbear resulted in them actually taking the war to FETISH rather than us hiding in Bawilin and hoping they don't come out to our part of the universe.

But what is most important is that we discuss these things as a group, and not go ahead and make rash decisions.

I've never advocated rash decisions, but we need to think of ourselves, not the petty needs of Devilbear. Especially, as you rightly pointed out, that they are extremely quick to turn around and blame us for the warscore, when they do nothing whatsoever about it. That is not the action of a supportive alliance, that is the action of a petty and petulant alliance, from which we are deriving no benefits from being part of them other than not getting direct WarDecs against Kassa.

Speaking as someone who lost 3.5Bil ISK to a war I'm not even fighting, it'd be a damn slight cheaper on us to be out of the alliance and pay surrender fees to ganker WarDecs than to remain in this endless war with FETISH.

I do agree that a discussion is in order here, so lets arrange a TS meeting or create a discussion topic here on the forums. Either way, we need to resolve this.

[Three of Seven]

You can sprinkle a bit of B on both of those options, it'd be good to have some PvP players in our corp to help out. I've been branching out into other areas and been looking at various things. Like I now have a covert ops cloak, problem is, that's no good if they are sitting at gates unless we find a wormhole into FETISH space.

I would be fine if we can press the alliance into actually doing something and not blaming the housewife for getting beaten up by her husband.

[thexpl0r3r]

It looks like we're all (more or less) on the same page and that we want this issue resolved soon. I really don't like being confined, hiding and waiting for the day they show up at our doors. From my point of view Alliance failed to deliver and considering recent changes I don't think they will go after FETISH. I doubt that they even have capacity to do it now, and what makes things worse is that this is a personal matter that got us permadecked and some good people have left Kassa because of it. Another disappointment with the Alliance for me was their inability to organize roaming parties or even to provide us basic self defense training. I asked both Lord Razpataz and Admiral Silva on several occasions to organize training for us and I even offered to cover the costs but they could not make it happen.

In my opinion, we should address the issue with our current Alliance and when they confirm they can't meet our needs start looking for a new one and once we find it part our ways without burning the bridges... and get some mercs to teach us how to defend ourselves when needed.

[Three of Seven]

I found a possible new alliance in these guys - https://forums.eveonline.com/default...84&find=unread

[merTYol]

I'll see if I can contact them.

Well a corporation that used to be part of Fetish (left today), has declared war against devilbear. I doubt this war is going to end anytime soon for them whether we leave or not, but you know It's our fault amirite guys.

10/10 Photoshop skillz.

in any case. from what i observed as i do not play as active as most of you. this doesnt seem to be ending anytime soon. so a solution needs to be established soon.

lets hope history will not repeat itself..

[thexpl0r3r]

I found a possible new alliance in these guys - https://forums.eveonline.com/default...84&find=unread

Do they have any operations in Hisec? Their killboards show null only... besides they are in war with Vendetta mercs... That would be worse than FETISH by far...

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/war/533204