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Post ID: 339480
#1
Posted Thu 28 Sep, 2017 3:41 PM
The want to humanize the Klingons, to make us understand them!? Klingons have only ever been the bad guys!?
The Klingons were the most well developed, unique alien species in Star Trek, and they've thrown out all of that.
I've said it before, I'm saying it again: The production staff on Discovery doesn't care about the rest of the Star Trek franchise.
"There's a point where we needed to stop and we have clearly passed it. But let's keep going and see what happens..."
Posted Thu 28 Sep, 2017 4:24 PM
This video is not available.
Uh oh.
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Post ID: 339488
#3
Posted Thu 28 Sep, 2017 4:29 PM
The want to humanize the Klingons, to make us understand them!? Klingons have only ever been the bad guys!?
The Klingons were the most well developed, unique alien species in Star Trek, and they've thrown out all of that.
I've said it before, I'm saying it again: The production staff on Discovery doesn't care about the rest of the Star Trek franchise.
I couldn't disagree more. Now they actually LOOK like an alien race, making use of modern makeup and special effects. Their lore and culture are intact AND—in fact—they've gone back to the distrusting, isolationist nature for which they were modeled (off the then-USSR, mind you) back in the 60s. Really, they've gone back to the Roddenberry ideal of being a mirror of our real world, and their behavior is not unlike a homogenization of Jihadist and North Korean mindsets.
Don't be so narrow minded about what is "Trek" to you. Heaven forbid a studio exercise a bit of imaginist behavior in their design process. Our imaginations are a lot more vivid and our technology a quantum leap better than even the world the ORIGINAL series inspired. Give it a chance. Dare to embrace change, like Data.
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Post ID: 339489
#4
Posted Thu 28 Sep, 2017 4:49 PM
they may as well stick antlers or horns on the Human Characters and call that a re-imagining too
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#5
Posted Thu 28 Sep, 2017 5:08 PM
in fact—they've gone back to the distrusting, isolationist nature for which they were modeled (off the then-USSR, mind you) back in the 60s.
That were the Romulans, the Klingons were an active and aggressive power against the Federation looking for new territories to conquer to gain recourses.
“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes;
he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever” ~ Chinese Proverb
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Post ID: 339494
#6
Posted Thu 28 Sep, 2017 5:18 PM
I couldn't disagree more. Now they actually LOOK like an alien race, making use of modern makeup and special effects. Their lore and culture are intact AND—in fact—they've gone back to the distrusting, isolationist nature for which they were modeled (off the then-USSR, mind you) back in the 60s. Really, they've gone back to the Roddenberry ideal of being a mirror of our real world, and their behavior is not unlike a homogenization of Jihadist and North Korean mindsets.
Don't be so narrow minded about what is "Trek" to you. Heaven forbid a studio exercise a bit of imaginist behavior in their design process. Our imaginations are a lot more vivid and our technology a quantum leap better than even the world the ORIGINAL series inspired. Give it a chance. Dare to embrace change, like Data.
I'll decide what's "Trek" for me and what isn't, I don't need to be told. If expecting for a production that's the latest entry in a franchise that just celebrated it's 51st anniversary to actually care about that history enough to pay attention to it is narrow-minded, then so be it.
I will agree with you that these Klingons are a step backwards, away from a race with some of the most complex characters and well developed culture in the franchise and a return to the one-dimensional portrayal that even Roddenberry gave up on after TOS.
"There's a point where we needed to stop and we have clearly passed it. But let's keep going and see what happens..."
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Posted Thu 28 Sep, 2017 5:49 PM
Personally, I'm not *too* bothered by the change in look... even if I'm totally and wholeheartedly prefer the TNG klingon "look".
What does, will, and likely bother me is if they change a lot of the cultural stuff about Klingons. For myself, TNG was *my* Star Trek. As such, I kind of saw Worf as my "Ambassador to Klingons". He opened the window into their story, culture, and other things that made the Klingons interesting for me.
I loved Worf's "Klingons don't..." quotes. Please don't ruin that for me CBS with your new Klingons. They can look different but please beyond please, don't make them culturally different. Don't change who and what they are.
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Posted Thu 28 Sep, 2017 6:24 PM
–
Last edited by SCOOP; Thu 28 Sep, 2017 6:26 PM.
I think they only look so 'different' for the sake of looking different, so that they can talk themselves into believing they've done something new.. I wonder when hollywood will start to change WW2 uniforms cause war movies aren't original anymore at this point..
"We look for things to make us go" -Cpt. Grebnedlog
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Post ID: 339678
#9
Posted Sun 01 Oct, 2017 7:51 AM
–
Last edited by Curzon Peers; Sun 01 Oct, 2017 7:57 AM.
Kahless forged his Bat'leth by thrusting a lock of his hair into lava at the Kri'stak volcano on Qo'noS. And for a Bat'leth to be forged out of hair it would be a pretty big lock, which we've seen plenty of Klingons rock.
Since when does mythology even come close to imitating realism? if Athena can spring out of Zeus's head, I am pretty sure three tiny hairs can turn into a bat'leth.
I should also note Star Trek has a fine history of disagreeing with it's own established lore (hell, there have been episodes which run counter to statements in the episode that aired the week before.
I'm not saying I agree with the changes to the Klingons. I'd have preferred them to leave well enough alone, and I also think it sounds like they've made it difficult for the actors to deliver on their lines with the fake teeth and mouth prosthetics, but I think it's a bit hypocritical to keep holding stuff against Discovery that EVERY series is guilty of.
It's too early to know if the show will be good, or bad (need I remind you none of the series thus far have had good first season, much less good pilots), but everyone seems to be ready to condemn it without having seen anything.
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Post ID: 339802
#10
Posted Mon 02 Oct, 2017 3:54 AM
Grasping much? Unlike Athena, Kahless was a real character in Star Trek that founded the Klingon Empire, not some god the Klingons made up. And even if it was a myth, why would Klingons sing about Kahless using his locks of hair when they themselves don't have hair?
But never to the same extent as completely changing a well-established species from looking barely like them. The only thing that makes them resemble Klingons is their head ridges. You can argue semantics by saying they changed the Trill from TNG to DS9, but even then that's stretching since Trills weren't as fleshed out or as important as the Klingons. The changes to the Klingons make no sense, I hear people say they look like proper aliens now, but why not change the Vulcans whilst you're at it? They're even less fleshed out than the Klingons.[/quote]I think the changes are terrible too, but that doesn't mean I don't also grow tired of people grasping at straws to find every reason they can why it's a bad idea.
As for Kahless, he was a real person in the story, but it's fairly obvious that his life became somewhat exaggerated over time. By the point in time when we first see the Klingons, he's become more of a legend than an actual person. It almost reminds me of the scene from Braveheart, the one where this man can't be William Wallace because he isn't 7 feet tall and shoots lightning from his arse.
This is something I seem to read every time on Reddit. What is with trashing all over the older Star Trek to make Discovery look good. Older Star Treks did have good pilots take DS9 and VOY for example, their pilots really set the tone for the shows, and did a good job of setting up the characters.
How am I trashing on older Star Trek by pointing out its flaws? The way I see it everyone is quick to point out everything wrong with a show they haven't watched while excusing every time the older shows did it. People were willing to watch 7 bad to mediocre seasons of Voyager, and 4 of Enterprise, but now everyone is hoping this new show fails before it's put out a full season. I for one am sick and tired of seeing potentially good shows killed before they got good simply because "they changed it now it sucks". It's not trashing on older Star Trek works at all, what it is is people are holding Discovery to a different standard than past shows and getting annoyed when it's shown the older shows had their own missteps too.
Sure the DS9 and Voyager pilots were decent, but I'd say later episodes did a better job of setting the tone, and Encounter at Farpoint was pretty bad as a pilot as was the pilot of Enterprise, and TOS's original pilot was only aired as a clipshow in The Menagerie, the actual first episode was just an episode. I do note there's no argument that the first season of TNG was bad, the first two seasons of Enterprise and Voyager were bad and the first season of DS9 was mediocre.
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Post ID: 339889
#11
Posted Mon 02 Oct, 2017 11:15 PM
I hear Outside™ is nice this time of year.
- - - Updated - - -
That were the Romulans, the Klingons were an active and aggressive power against the Federation looking for new territories to conquer to gain recourses.
*Insert Wonka meme* PLEASE, tell me more about who the Klingons trusted during the TOS.
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Posted Sun 15 Oct, 2017 1:16 AM
Personally, I'm not *too* bothered by the change in look... even if I'm totally and wholeheartedly prefer the TNG klingon "look".
What does, will, and likely bother me is if they change a lot of the cultural stuff about Klingons. For myself, TNG was *my* Star Trek. As such, I kind of saw Worf as my "Ambassador to Klingons". He opened the window into their story, culture, and other things that made the Klingons interesting for me.
I loved Worf's "Klingons don't..." quotes. Please don't ruin that for me CBS with your new Klingons. They can look different but please beyond please, don't make them culturally different. Don't change who and what they are.
There are things about Klingons though that are mentioned in other shows/movies that have never been explored. Example, Klingon Mumification.