[John Hathaway]

Hello all

Since the day I took command of {UFP}, MSN or WLM (I still call it MSN ), has been the primary and mandatory means to communicate between fellow members. It was one of the most popular IM tools at the time, and offered a host of features we could use to hold meetings, get in contact with people quickly etc.
However with the advent of TeamSpeak 3, and the server being used more frequently than ever before, Starfleet Command has considered shifting the focus away from MSN and onto TeamSpeak.

What does this mean? Well right now there are no set in stone plans, and as is often the case we like to hear feedback from the general membership before taking action on these kinds of issues. We'd like to hear whether you're for this, or against it and importantly the reasons why.

The general feeling from SFC is that TeamSpeak while primarily a tool for audio communication actually fulfils the role of MSN just as well with it's own text communication ability. So if you don't have a mic or simply don't wish to use one, you can still hop on and use text chat with others, and people do do that.
If you're in Star Trek Online, you can still use the in-game chat as others speak to you and to others in the room. It opens an entirely new dimension on gaming which can only be known if experienced, whether you end up using a microphone yourself or not.

We recently moved into the top 200 of over 4500 TeamSpeak servers being tracked by gametracker.com, that's higher than 96% of servers. So if you did hop on at a time where it seemed the server wasn't in use, do try again later as the server is frequented often, throughout the day and night. You'll find some of us, including myself, are often on just for a chat in the Members Lounge so feel free to join us, everyone is welcome.

So what are your thoughts? Should TeamSpeak receive greater emphasis, should it be mandatory for certain events, or do you have something else in mind?

[Neo]

I rarely use MSN any more to be honest and I find it easier to communicate via TeamSpeak

• It does text needs
• voice needs
• its use-able in-game
• its use-able as an off-line messenger
• Its use-able to send small files!....

MSN is...

• static
• big n bulky
• full of ads
• slow
• bad latency at times without u even knowing
• ugly.
• over-limiting.
• full of people who download virus's then link the virus to others
• cant use it ingame without minimising..
• voice is limited to 1 to 1.....

[Chris Karak]

I think that MSN is better because the admins are usually on so you can ask a question quickly and easily. Also, when I go on TeamSpeak I am not comfortable at times to use my voice so I use the text bar at the bottom but I enter my text and send it to the chat room and nobody responds. It seems that most only talk on TeamSpeak as I never get a response using the text.

[Mikester92]

They're benefits to using both programs, but I believe that TS should be our primary form of communication when it comes to meetings, long convos, and just casual socialization. However, MSN should still be used for simple questions that only require a short answer.

[Clamps]

Hello, new guy here. I saw someone mentioned MSN being, well, bad. And I couldn't agree more. There is an alternative to using the native client. www.pidgin.im works well and it comes without all the bad. It also has a plugins to stop getting spam from bots that seems to work very well. I've been using it for a few years now and I've never looked back. Now, that being said, it isn't perfect. Now and again (every 3-4 months) I get connectivity issues with random IM servers. The team the maintains pidgin is pretty good about fixing those issues.

As for TS vs IMing, I'm good either way.


Clamps

[U.S.S. Hyperion]

MSN is...

• static

What do you mean by that?

[LIST][*]

[*]big n bulky

In what way?

[*]full of ads

I wouldn

[John Hathaway]

I think that MSN is better because the admins are usually on so you can ask a question quickly and easily. Also, when I go on TeamSpeak I am not comfortable at times to use my voice so I use the text bar at the bottom but I enter my text and send it to the chat room and nobody responds. It seems that most only talk on TeamSpeak as I never get a response using the text.

Hi Chris. Not to contradict but I think the majority of SFC members now utilise TeamSpeak more often than MSN, from my own observations anyway, unless you were referring to another group of people.
As for not comfortable using your voice, not only can I understand but also relate to that. I wasn't comfortable using TeamSpeak at first either and will admit that for quite some time I didn't entertain the notion of VOIP chat in {UFP} partially based on that, but it's like most things, if you use it frequently it becomes second nature with time. Having said that, you don't need to speak to use TeamSpeak if you don't want, we don't want to make anyone do something they're not comfortable with.
In regards to your last issue, it may be a problem with how you've sent the text message. If you're in the room with them, you can send a text message to the entire room, but you do need to be in that room. The main chat channel for all rooms is less watched, so you are less likely to get a response from there. The only other thing I can think of, is if you're in say one of the STO rooms, using the TeamSpeak text chat function possibly won't work because they'll be in game and won't see it, so I'd recommend using in-game chat if you don't use a microphone (but that's the same issue with MSN too, so it's not a con as such).

In my opinion both MSN and TS3 are good programms, however they are intended for different things.

I would agree with your points on MSN. I still think MSN Messenger is the best IM program out there, and I've nothing against it at all, and still believe it has its uses and even the odd minor advantage (easier to maintain chat logs on MSN for example). The only reason we feel the need to focus more on TS3 nowadays is because of the advantages it has to offer, rather than due to any disadvantages MSN offers.

On TS on the other hand, I usually would sit in some kind of general channel, and that is where trouble starts. People come in and chatter. Thats nice, but if they often will speak about something that does not concern me. I then have background chatter on my computer that I dont want to hear. I want to hear my music when on my computer, not the chatter of people about a topic that is of no interest to me.

You might say now, "Hey, why not just muting it"?

Good question, but if i mute TS, I can pretty much simple go back to MSN anyway. With the advantage that I am not bothered by channel messages not directed at me too.

Well this raises an interesting point, and part of the reason I wanted to get feedback from you guys. I can relate to your point on background noise and chatter that doesn't concern or perhaps interest you. Yes the mute function could be utilised, I wouldn't then say why not use MSN, but perhaps it might be seen as being anti-social or you may miss something that is directed at you. For the record I don't believe in either one, and see plenty of people use mute when they want their concentration elsewhere, myself included from time to time. In those instances people tend to use the Poke function which will alert you that someone is after your attention and you can take it from there.

One thing that does spring to mind though, would a room designed for people who are "available" but not wanting to socialise in a big group, be a good idea? Is it a feasible approach to the sort of availability of being on MSN but not wanting to involve yourself in social chatter? It's not something I'd considered before but I'm glad you raised it.
It could be a room which is muted (as the AFK room is) but lets everyone know you're available should they need you much in the same way MSN works.

Private messaging: There are often things that dont require the involvement of more than 2 people. Many short questions and admin request are or such nature. Sending such a request in a populated team speak channel causes unecessary interruptions for those people talking into it. There might be 10 people discussing something and then I come in and need one of them for quick admin job. You are getting the point.

On this note is where TS3 actually is just as capable as MSN with a few extra advantages. You have three options for contacting one particular user, no matter which room you or the other person is in. You can send a poke, which is a very easy way to get someone's initial attention or for a short question perhaps. You can also send a text message, which opens up a private chat area for you and the other person, and is therefore just like MSN, or you can set up a whisper and voice chat to them privately.

Lastly, there are actually things like private conversations, that are unsuitable for a public thing like a TS server.

Again here you can utilise the three options mentioned above, although perhaps not the poke function. The private conversations and whispers are not visible/audible to others and cannot be made to be so. Again you can even be in separate rooms and still have a private one on one, or even a private chat with multiple people if you so wish, over many rooms.

Karak is right about when he says that in TS text messages are often overlooked. It is a general problem, when people are involved in speaking they hardly check the messages there. At last it was this way in any TS heavy clan I ever was in. (Not for long )

I would agree that text gets less emphasis, and of course typing creates a lag time, which makes it difficult to stay in convo (although there may be others using text much like yourself for the same reasons). However I think the plus of being able to hear other members, and to whatever extent be more involved in the social aspect can only be a good thing. If it's a one on one, text is fine since the other person can only respond as you have.
The only other time it may be an issue is if they're in game as aforementioned, but of course MSN is not the superior choice for that.

When we make TS mandatory we may leave quite some people behind who for what reasons ever, prefer different communications methods.

Let me be clear in saying that at this point there's been no discussion of making TS completely mandatory (in the same way MSN currently is) but rather more encouraged, and during certain events, like say the UFPAC, a mandatory communication tool (with text being fully available).

One more problem: Our members come from all over the world. For many, english is not their native language. So often on TS you will have everyone speaking their english with accents, what makes it more difficult to understand, especially if people speak at the same time.

This is a good point, accents may be a factor to consider. Although I believe this would a minor issue for the vast majority. I've continually been impressed at the level of understanding and speaking of English from people who don't have English as their native language. If that were a factor for some people, then absolutely I would understand their reluctance to use TS on a regular basis. We have taken that into account, for instance in the last UFPAC where all verbal talk was also texted into the chat room so people could read as well as listen in. I think a similar courtesy like that could be exercised on other occasions as well... simply be giving short but clear instructions via text.

Why not simple editing the standard welcome post and add a link to TS3 at the bottom? We could link to a prepared forum posts with all download links and details. Making TS3 highly encouraged has no disadvantages in my opinion, as long as we still have MSN or an other well known communication programm. However, using something different than MSN, might again reduce recruitment numbers a bit, as it appears to be the most used program in the Star Trek Community.

Indeed, this is one avenue which has been discussed in SFC, and we will be looking into how to make TS3 more visible as an active communications tool in {UFP} via the join application.
I appreciate your thorough post, it was a good read and hit a few points which were very valid that we had not considered.

[Jon Thomas]

................./\
.............../....\
............./........\
.........../............\
.................|
.................|
.................|

What he said.

I agree that each have there own advantages and disadvantages And I am usually on both at the same time that way if some one needs to talk to me badly they can get a hold of me both ways

[Chris Karak]

I agree with u John and also with Mikestar that both programs are good for somethings either the same reasons or not. MSN yes, has ads and what not and I agree it should be a secondary program. MSN could be used just for short technical questions. Where as TS should be used definitly for meetings and Member Communications. Meetings would be very ideal for the fleet.(I know we already have mettings but i am just mentioning it) So I guess we could still use both because one is better in one aspect but the other is better in another aspect.

Chris Karak

P.S. I would ask something in the chatbox for that room and I am in that room but i still normally don't get an answer.

[BigMikeL]

I believe that TS should be strongly encouraged by the Fleet, but mandatory for those who play STO. Meetings are much easier with audio communication than texting, so meetings on a voice server is a must. Running STF's in STO or just combat in general require a bit of calling shots on the fly, mid-combat, something that can't be done by typing in Fleet chat. As long as you can hear, you can know what the strategy is.

For contacting out of game, MSN works real well for short questions. Plus, I can't get TS on my iPhone, but I get MSN, so if I have something that comes up unexpected, I can send a quick IM saying I can't be there. PM is for those messages that need a longer explanation.

So what I'm saying is that TS Should be encouraged outside of games for meetings, mandatory for games, MSN should remain as it is for short, quick communication.

(For those of you who don't like talking, TS texts do get read, but when in game, it is hard to switch screens to view a message. Sometimes I miss the ding because of music or my attention is elsewhere. Usually I try to see what all messages have been typed. Hopefully it is answered by text, or at least voice.

And I would make an exemption for those who do not speak English, seeing as talking on TS would be impossible. )

[Bondgadget]

I think that Teamspeak should be encouraged to use. However MSN is also a tool that should be utilised. Though a lot of people are starting to use teamspeak now, not everyone is. When i want to talk to someone, I generally do it over msn, as the other person may not be on TS, not have it or not want to go on it.

I'm on TS a lot these days and I think it is a great tool for the fleet to have. However, it in no way is a realistic replacement for WLM/MSN. It others some of the features that MSN does and yes there is a chat box, but in-game or when you’re talking to someone you tend to not notice people typing in the chat-box.

As well as that MSN provides a more personal and private outcome, whereas there is always someone on Teamspeak, however there may be place to privately speak with someone I always prefer MSN. I don’t particularly want to have to be in a channel with 132 people when on Teamspeak lol. One hell of a headache.

Though, there are very very many great uses for Teamspeak like meetings, frag nights, one on one chats, long conversations etc I just cannot see the point of replacing a widely known tool (MSN) with a lesser known tool (TS3), which some people may of not heard of until they came to the UFP. I fail to see the advantages of such a change apart from the ones that I have stated.

I agree that teamspeak defiantly needs more emphasis on it, but I think MSN still has a great emphasis of use within the fleet. Some good points have been made and I completely agree with you Hath that Teamspeak is growing and getting more members and should have a greater use in the UFP, but i just cannot see it taking over MSN for us anytime soon.

I am, however, behind creating a greater emphasis and bringing more people to Team Speak.

[Jadzia Flex]

I think we should shift our focus to teamspeak as I see that many of our members tend to use it rather then msn/wlm. And it also comes with the ability to use text instead of speaking for those who are not comfortable speaking to others.

I do think MSN/WLM is a very useful tool however the majority of our members now use teamspeak so thats were my 2 cents goes.

- Jadzia

[Celchu]

While in STO a typing program is simply not feasable, I type some in fleet chat but during missions even that is extreemly taxing. IM fine with using MSN for casual communications or quick questions since I have access to MSN no matter where I am, but I only have access to TS when I am at home.

I think a combo of both is preferrable, but for STO.....If you want the full experience u really need to be on TS.

[Neo]

senario.....

Your in a frag match.... its you and joe vs bob and jim.......

jim captures your flag, and u see him take a transporter to the top of your teams tower......

You stand still, Pressing yout Talk key for your team you start to type "Jim is o....." oh... you got shot!.... and now jim is on the run.......


Same Scenario..

jim captures your flag, and u see him take a transporter to the top of your teams tower......

while your in your evasive manoeuvres you press your talk key/button, or even if u have it on voice activation you say " flag is top of our tower, i see bob running towards your position"......

both a kill each, and your team saves the day......

Or if we put it into context... the server has lots of bots on, and a glitch has occoured to stop you being able to join the server because of all the bots......

you close the game, because minimising is more of a hassle than worth talking about.. you open MSN... and see that most people have turned msn off to play without being minimised or to play without having to minimise all the time... how-to contact someone?????

your on STO and your playing PVP...
Now at times, PVP can be fast based, but still can be won if the teams work together.....

you don't have time to start typing who you are attacking..... you definitely don't want to minimise to send the message on msn...... FAIL!!!!

Teamspeak ftw.

[Neo]

Thanks to the initiative of Hyperion.

New channel on Teamspeak!

Name: Poke If Needed/Text Chat
Codec Quality: 0 (estimated bitrate: 602 Bytes/s)
Type: Perm
Description: This is a channel for those listening to music, or dont want background noise whilst working, and are available if something comes up, or for text talking.

The low codec will reduce the amount of bandwidth TeamSpeak will use!