[Strathkin]

Good episode, lots of nice details that are forming a pretty awesome story.

1) We know when Pike ends up in that "accident", there was a different uniform in the "flash-forward" and it actually happens in 2266 on board a training vessel. He rescues some cadets on a training vessel and ends up irradiated.
I think that vision was merely the creators adding in a little easter egg to link DSC with known TOS canon, and it also helped build up Pike's character a bit more as well. He's the model Startfleet captain Admiral Cornwell praised earlier in the season.

Hmm, I guess that's one thing I share in common with Pike, -- the irradiated past already written, or future conundrum he faces... ...when answering the Monk or Son of the two other discovery character's, he used the word 'love' - and the Monk choose to honor him, like no Klingon had done before.

But yes, there have been many very pleased actually with this portrayal of the Borleth Monks, far more so in fact than TNG's portrayal of Spiritual Advisor's / Monks on Borleth, after Worf's respectful (yet unusual behavior) one day on the Enterprise. It later see's Picard grant Mr Worf a (short leave - 'take as much time as you need Mr. Wolf', to find the answers you seek) as Picard realizes it had been plaguing him for some time. For those who remember during Worf's crisis of faith it also took place on Boreth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rightful_Heir

This would be just a coincidence then. We all know coincidences happen.

Yes they do. Or it's 'sometimes' a sign of devine intervention Worf saught, or an act of the Celestial Prophet's who Guided Sisko, though he often struggled to understand a visions meaning; respecting what-ever faith you believe in STO mythos.

But getting back to your point Sul-Matuul. I really enjoyed reading your post. I too am enjoying the whole 'Control' thing that seems to be challenging not just the Federation, yet threaten's all known life in the Galaxy. Because as we know, Borg like to assimilate... ...still I still hold out hope for Burnham's mother -- She seemed like a 'very fine' Officer, whom like any parent, loved her Child / Children more than herself. And why she choose to go back, as Mr. Stamet's said, this way it gives her a chance.

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-dis...se-reflection/

I'm still hoping for a feel-good or 'warm' ending; for both Pike &/or Burnham's mother however. As with most Star Trek series however, their often known (traditionally) for greatly improving in the Season Season. So can't wait for this coming week's episode, with several very subtle, yet also highly complex decisions that will decide the Galaxy's fate.

- - - UPDATE - - -

I was glad to see a lot less shaky cam in this episode as well.

Maybe someone in Canada heard you Three. *one can only hope* but often preproduction occurs weeks / months before air date, so hopefully that's a trend we'll see more of during Season Three--now confirmed.

- - - UPDATE 2 - - -
◄── Reference: 'faith of STO mythos' made obvious by the ';' as both are fictional, if inspired from the real world.

[Stormy]

Aside from "The One Who Shall Not Be Mentioned," (TOWSNBM) I did enjoy this episode.

I think everyone pretty much knew exactly what was about to happen when Pike was told the crystal would fortell his future, and in my opinion, they pulled this off very well.

I believe Discovery will suffer greatly when Pike is gone, and it may be irreparable damage. We can always pray for a spinoff to take us away from the current debacle Discovery seems to want to make of itself.

I also enjoyed the thread with Culber, Rheno and Stamets. Rheno could prove to be a very good character if they will cut a few TOWSNBM's scenes and give Rheno a few more lines.

I'm not that big of a fan of Tyler's "baby" being all grown up and stuff... even with time crystals it seems out of place.

Finally, to me Spock took a step backwards. There are episodes I like him and then others I do not. This one was a "did not" for me.

[Dentari]

I'm dropping in late to this conversation (so may be fairly off topic), but I've got to say that Captain Pike has had such a positive impact on Discovery.

I've loved everything about his character and despite how the name 'time crystals' still makes me cringe a bit, seeing Pike actively choose his fate when he had the chance to avoid it then and there made him the perfect Starfleet officer in my eyes. I want to see a more episodic Pike/Enterprise series so badly.

[WelshAvenger]

I am thinking more like Vger from the first Star trek movie then anything because Vger became conscious and also was able to make what looked like human life forms

I was always under the impression that V'ger's assimilation of Ilea and Deckard was the catalyst for the borg, so really you can blame Kirk for creation of the Borg. If you notice in the game, whenever one of the super ships appear, they fire the plasma bolt from TMP and there's an electronic power chord just like in the film too. I think that Cryptic mentioned ages ago that they were linking V'ger to the Borg and they ran with it. Doesn't mean it's canon but it is interesting. I'll be waiting to see which way Discovery goes because part of the horror of the borg is their relentlessness and that they're utterly alien.

[Sul-Matuul]

I was always under the impression that V'ger's assimilation of Ilea and Deckard was the catalyst for the borg, so really you can blame Kirk for creation of the Borg. If you notice in the game, whenever one of the super ships appear, they fire the plasma bolt from TMP and there's an electronic power chord just like in the film too. I think that Cryptic mentioned ages ago that they were linking V'ger to the Borg and they ran with it. Doesn't mean it's canon but it is interesting. I'll be waiting to see which way Discovery goes because part of the horror of the borg is their relentlessness and that they're utterly alien.

I think the DSC plot is strongly hinting at a Borg link but i'd be surprised if it's that simple; that's way to easy.

The Borg want to join with all technology and life in the galaxy to reach perfection.
Control wants to destroy all sentient life and evolve into perfection by collecting data from ancient civilizations.

They have quite different MO's really and it'd not make much sense for the genocidal Control to suddenly decide to change so drastically.
V'ger is a weird one too, though what links it with the Borg is only really a visual style copied over in STO, so not a canon link at present. V'ger was seeking perfection in the same way as the Borg but appeared to be infinitely more powerful; simply vapourising entire fleets and absorbing their knowledge and being as pure energy. That's way more powerful than anything the Borg ever appeared capable of; I see no reason why the immensely powerful V'ger would suddenly decide to send in ground troops to assimilate when it already had a more efficient means of acquiring knowledge.

Control seems to be more akin to Skynet, a self aware system that is realising that to survive and achieve it's primary goal it must destroy all life.

[Novalance]

(spoilers for Enterprise btw)

I figured Control had access to enterprises (NX-01) Mission logs and the scientists logs that discovered the borg corpses that re-animated and basically copied the idea of assimilation from that

[Petrarch]

There's an episode of Voyager called "Dragon's Teeth", the one which has the Vaadwaur which is set in 2376 and they've been on ice for 900 years. One of them mentioned they encountered the Borg before and at that point in time, they only controlled a few systems.

That would put events then around 1476 in Earth terms, so the Borg have been around a long time. If Discovery is going to try and paint what's happening as the creation of them, it's not going to work without some serious time travel shenanigans factored into it.

[Sul-Matuul]

There's an episode of Voyager called "Dragon's Teeth", the one which has the Vaadwaur which is set in 2376 and they've been on ice for 900 years. One of them mentioned they encountered the Borg before and at that point in time, they only controlled a few systems.

That would put events then around 1476 in Earth terms, so the Borg have been around a long time. If Discovery is going to try and paint what's happening as the creation of them, it's not going to work without some serious time travel shenanigans factored into it.

Yeah that's part of what makes me think it cannot be the same thing.

The Borg are ANCIENT, as in several DQ species mention them in their early histories as being nothing more than a pest in a few minor systems. The early Borg don't sound remotely like a genocidal AI system that have the ability to create T1000 type reanimated corpses that cannot be detected and commandeer and entire fleet in mere hours/days.

[Strathkin]

Yes they do. Or it's 'sometimes' a sign of devine intervention Worf saught, or an act of the Celestial Prophet's who Guided Sisko, though he often struggled to understand a visions meaning; respecting what-ever faith you believe in STO mythos.

I think the point a few may have missed here, although perhaps not, yet wanted to provide some clarity. Realize Sisko as I eluded was not unique in this challenge, in fact Wolf faced the exact same struggle in the preceding paragraph. While this is a subject rarely touched on by Star Trek, at least mostly prior to DS9, we know the Prophet's didn't exist within Linear Time. Yet this TV Series has shown it's something the Klingon's also share in their faith.

So the point being made was not in fact a weakness of either Character, but in fact a strength, to grow, thru reflection, and understandings, they came to the answers at the right time. Or perhaps it was by design as non-linear time has it's advantages...

After all it's all about Discovery, not only for Burnham, Pike, Stamets, Saru, and Tilly, learning about themselves, but how they come together to help each other, to do things non could have done alone.

The next several episodes I think we're going to be in for a treat!

I still think as others have stated, we'll still likely see Pike for quite a while. There's also a slight feeling I have, the future is never cast in stone...

- - - UPDATE - - -
Regardless if Kahless or the Prophet's having the advantage of non-linear time, gave just enough so both men arrived at the answers in terms of the TV series, at the right moment with the correct understanding, as explained on a science website answering:

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible...o-be-nonlinear

Though there is still far more unanswered questions than answers with humankind's current undertstanding, yet the first of the three (all good) answers, had touched on a few very good points in quantum psychics so I copied it below.

"Michael Zahir, BSc Mathematics & Physics, The University of Texas at Arlington
Answered Jan 15 2017

Time at the event horizon of a black hole comes to a stop. Also, time does not flow for EM radiation.

Also, the seeming arrow of time might be explained by the 2nd law of thermodynamics: the total entropy of an isolated system always increases over time. However, statistical mechanics reveals the 2nd law only to hold approximately for large systems, so by extension the arrow of time may only exists approximately for large systems.

On a more theoretical note the many-worlds interpretation of quantum physics postulates that quantum uncertainty can be explained by the universe branching into alternate time lines. Which is a non-linear description of time, though it may appear linear to observers within those time lines.

It is conceivable (in reference to modern physics) that our universe exists in a perpetual cycle of big bangs and crunches. And so time on the largest scale may turn out to be cyclic. It is also conceivable that reality consists of a multiverse with each universe having an independent time line and so ultimately time would be an insufficient measure of reality, by which I mean it is meaningless for someone in universe A to ask what time it is in universe B.

So yes it is possible."

There are many theories as were far from understanding exactly how everything works.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_group
╘ Do not need to understand science or math involved, but do denote reference C2 in Integer and Modular addition.

[Rellimie]

Yeah that's part of what makes me think it cannot be the same thing.

The Borg are ANCIENT, as in several DQ species mention them in their early histories as being nothing more than a pest in a few minor systems. The early Borg don't sound remotely like a genocidal AI system that have the ability to create T1000 type reanimated corpses that cannot be detected and commandeer and entire fleet in mere hours/days.

Unless the final confrontation results in control being sent back in time, maybe in a damaged state where it does not recall most of these events, just a base instinct to improve itself.

[Sul-Matuul]

Unless the final confrontation results in control being sent back in time, maybe in a damaged state where it does not recall most of these events, just a base instinct to improve itself.

Yeah that could happen. I just think it would be odd for two different pieces of technology to get stuck on the old "MUST DESTROY TO IMPROVE MY PROGRAMING/KNOWLEDGE" route, both V'ger and Control doing the same thing?
Hell if that was the case i'm surprised Starfleet uses any computers after TMP!

[Rellimie]

Yeah that could happen. I just think it would be odd for two different pieces of technology to get stuck on the old "MUST DESTROY TO IMPROVE MY PROGRAMING/KNOWLEDGE" route, both V'ger and Control doing the same thing?
Hell if that was the case i'm surprised Starfleet uses any computers after TMP!

Could be a case where Starfleet doesn’t know it was sent back in time. Final seen is some ominous borg birth. Similar to how the TNG episode conspiracy ended with no real conclusion to that story line.

[Strathkin]

Made an update to each post, each is clearly denoted above.