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Post ID: 421975
#1
Posted Thu 02 Jul, 2020 2:06 PM
Just saw on the BBC News site that the UK is starting to discuss cracking down on the use of loot boxes in games, calling them a form of gambling. Thought I'd share a link to the story since if this moves forward it could impact many of the games this group participates in and might eventually impact those of us outside the UK as well depending on how all this plays out.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53253195
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Posted Thu 02 Jul, 2020 2:44 PM
Its an interesting situation to follow, alot of countries have been vocal about it in the last couple of years.
Essentially though, gambling laws cannot apply to loot boxes because you don't purchase or open them with money. Game publishers get around the legalities of gambling in games by using an intermediary currency between the users wallet and the gambling/loot-box/chance mechanics ingame. In STO's case this is Zen, mobile games use gems and such like, EVE Online uses Plex, SWTOR uses Cartel Coins.
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Post ID: 421978
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Posted Thu 02 Jul, 2020 3:05 PM
You buy Zen with money in the same way you buy chips in the casino with money.
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Post ID: 421981
#4
Posted Thu 02 Jul, 2020 3:19 PM
The united Kingdom isn't the first country... In West Taiwan Developer have to show the exact chances on getting what from a "suprise mechanic" and you can only open a certain number of them each day (gambling is a problem of East Asians in general as they have cultural a different stance to it than westerners). In the Netherlands and Belgium Lootboxes are already illegal. Even the US is investigating them!
Loot boxes are gambling no matter in which way one might suggar code them or hide them behind intermediary currency.
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Post ID: 421983
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Posted Thu 02 Jul, 2020 3:24 PM
It doesn't matter if an intermediary currency is used, just as Bridger has said, in a casino, you use chips, which you buy with money, and chips are an intermediary currency. The chips themselves only hold a value in the casino, just as Zen only holds value in certain games, the only difference being that you can trade in chips for money.
Can you open lootboxes in games without real money? In some, sure, like STO you can grind out dilithium to get Zen to get keys. You could grind out EC to buy keys, but in this case, someone would have had to have bought the keys in the first place for them to exist on the market, unless we assume they have all be bought using free dilithium.
Look at GTA Online, which has a casino, this casino can't be used by players in certain countries because of gambling laws. There is no need to use real money in the casino, you can play the games with money you earn in game, yet because you have the option to purchase real money, it means that it is possible to gamble real money away for fake money.
Even without the real money aspect, lootboxes are still gambling, if you get to open them free, you are still paying with your time, and potentially being shown adverts. Am I against lootboxes? Yes, they clearly prey on peoples desire to get the big ticket item, no one is going to open a single lootbox and be happy with a single XP boost, it doesn't hold the same value.
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Post ID: 421984
#6
Posted Thu 02 Jul, 2020 3:37 PM
Game publishers get around the legalities of gambling in games by using an intermediary currency between the users wallet and the gambling/loot-box/chance mechanics ingame. In STO's case this is Zen
In my view this makes the whole situation worse because it's adding in a disconnect between the lootbox itself and the real world value in cash that you spend on it. For any game where a child (or even someone older with poor willpower and financial control) is playing and going to encounter these lootbox mechanics it makes it very easy to loose track of spending; or fail to appreciate the cost.
The House of Lords are absolutely correct; if it looks like gambling then it should be considered gambling by law. And they are also correct in that the law is too far behind current trends to be of use in these situations; it needs to be updated to account for the newer technology allowing for gambling online and in games etc.
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Post ID: 421985
#7
Posted Thu 02 Jul, 2020 3:43 PM
In my view this makes the whole situation worse because it's adding in a disconnect between the lootbox itself and the real world value in cash that you spend on it. For any game where a child (or even someone older with poor willpower and financial control) is playing and going to encounter these lootbox mechanics it makes it very easy to loose track of spending; or fail to appreciate the cost.
The House of Lords are absolutely correct; if it looks like gambling then it should be considered gambling by law. And they are also correct in that the law is too far behind current trends to be of use in these situations; it needs to be updated to account for the newer technology allowing for gambling online and in games etc.
100% agree on both counts.
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Posted Thu 02 Jul, 2020 3:51 PM
Let us assume that one WOULD grind DIL to purchase Zen to buy a Master Key 10-Pack.
1 Master Key 10-Pack is currently on sale for 900 Zen (regularly 1,125 Zen).
The current best exchange rate for DIL to Zen is 410:1.
900 * 410 = 369,000 DIL
369,000 / 9,500 (the most any one toon can refine in a day) = 38.842105 days. (Or - if one has 39 toons - 1 day)
But... The only way to refine 9,500 per day is to be a Lifetime Subscriber, and if it was timed right there could be 2 allowances which would negate the need to grind at all. So... Yeah, it's easier to just wait for your allowance and buy them then. Forget the maths.
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