[Discussion] - Fleet admiral rank in Star Trek online

timverbesselt · Posted Sat 26 Mar, 2022 12:30 PM

Then again, with all of this information you can find online, the makers of sto did not do their homework as it seems easy enough for them to do their research before implementing this ingame.
An admiral can captain a starship and command a group of starships with his ship taken as flagship so it would be logical for the makers to stop advancing a character at the rank of admiral and not using the fleet admiral rank.
Maybe they will find a reasonable and explainable solution fo this in the future.

Silek · Posted Sat 26 Mar, 2022 12:51 PM

You answered in canon. Well played sir.

Originally Posted by Remsus

This was also mentioned on DS9 Season 4 Episode 6 "Behind the Lines" between O'Brien and Nog:

"It's an old naval tradition. Whoever's in command of a ship, regardless of rank, is referred to as 'captain.' "
"You mean if I had to take command, I would be called 'captain,' too?"
"Cadet, by the time you took command, there'd be nobody left to call you anything."
"Good point."

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki...ines_(episode)

Just to confuse you.

Col. West.

Remsus · Posted Sat 26 Mar, 2022 1:40 PM

Originally Posted by Silek

You answered in cannon. Well played sir.

Just to confuse you.

Col. West.

Thank you Silek.
Surprised at myself that I could remember, I've only seen this episode once over 15 years ago, when it first aired in Germany.
Took me almost a day to find the right episode in English.

Bridger · Posted Sat 26 Mar, 2022 1:44 PM

Originally Posted by Silek

You answered in cannon. Well played sir.

The canon you mean is with only one n

Originally Posted by Silek

Just to confuse you.Col. West.

I can do better

While identified in dialogue as a "colonel", West wore the uniform of a Starfleet vice admiral.

Silek · Posted Sat 26 Mar, 2022 2:09 PM

Originally Posted by Bridger

The canon you mean is with only one n

I'm not sure what your talking about. I could have been talking about anything. Regardless, its been changed, and the one thing I know for sure, when somethings been deleted on the internet, its gone forever.

Tbang · Posted Sat 26 Mar, 2022 4:25 PM

Computer wisdom I've accumulated...

Once it's on the net, it's out there forever.

There are no impossible conditions.

Never trust them if they know more about you than you do.

Originally Posted by Silek

I'm not sure what your talking about. I could have been talking about anything. Regardless, its been changed, and the one thing I know for sure, when somethings been deleted on the internet, its gone forever.

Silek · Posted Sat 26 Mar, 2022 5:59 PM

Originally Posted by Tbang

Computer wisdom I've accumulated...

Once it's on the net, it's out there forever.

There are no impossible conditions.

Never trust them if they know more about you than you do.

If Phillip J Frye is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

darkish · Posted Tue 12 Jul, 2022 1:18 AM

Not sure if it's anywhere canon in game, but I heard someone say it makes more sense if you think about STO in the idea that there is a "ton" of time and multi-verse stuff going on. So a lot of the other characters running around would be "you" from a different time or place.

Sorotia · Posted Tue 12 Jul, 2022 4:11 AM

Originally Posted by Remsus

I totally agree with JBY04:

If I remember correctly, the maximum level was increased at least once, I think twice, without introducing a new rank. The ranks should be stretched more over the levels up to captain.

Lower the cap to 60

1-9: Cadet
10-19: Ensign
20-29: Lt Jg
30-39: Lt
40-49: Lt Cmdr
50-59: Cmdr
60: Captain

Dark · Posted Tue 12 Jul, 2022 2:35 PM

The highest permanent rank in the US Navy is Rear Admiral (Lower Half). All higher ranks are positional, and you lose the rank when you vacate the position. This system also applies to the Army or Air Force, where the highest permanent rank is Major General.

None of those positions would involve running around shooting people. Not only are they desk jobs where you send other people to send other people to shoot people, they're positions where your duties include explicitly not being in the front lines.

"Leading from the front" has been an obsolete concept since at least WW2. There's even a scene in Band of Brothers where Major Winters is in fact berated by Colonel Sink when Winters wants to charge forward with his men. That's not his job, and they can't afford to lose people in his job as lack of command will get other people killed.

The only reason the Russian generals are leading from the front is because the Russian military turned out to be garbage, and they can't effectively command without actually being there.

The most aggravating thing about us being anything more than Captains in STO is that Kirk literally advised Picard not to be promoted past Captain, as that would take him off a starship. It's established canon!

vonLuden · Posted Wed 13 Jul, 2022 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by Dark

"Leading from the front" has been an obsolete concept since at least WW2.

Agree, but at sea it was somewhat different. For example Vice Admiral Holland and (full) Admiral Lutjens both went down with their ships in May 1941, and I think could not have been more at the front than that.

Dark · Posted Wed 13 Jul, 2022 1:54 PM

Yeah, but our "Fleet Admirals" literally lead the landing parties. It's already a violation of Starfleet regulations for a Captain to do so, but a Fleet Admiral? Sheesh.

Though I'm under the impression Admirals also traditionally wouldn't be in command of the ship they're on, they're just setting up their HQ there.

vonLuden · Posted Wed 13 Jul, 2022 8:08 PM

Originally Posted by Dark

Though I'm under the impression Admirals also traditionally wouldn't be in command of the ship they're on, they're just setting up their HQ there.

I think that is correct, and I don't know of any historical exceptions. The CO of the ship was called 'Flag Captain' in the RN.

As for Star Trek, I always thought that the plot device of having Kirk 'take the center seat' in ST/TMP was a stretch. He could have avoided the conflict with Decker by commanding the mission and leaving Decker in command of the ship. This happened in at least one ST/TNG episode (where the old admiral grows young again).

I do know of one case where an admiral led an 'away team'. Nelson lost his arm in a landing at Santa Cruz in 1797.

Stryker · Posted Mon 25 Jul, 2022 3:19 AM

Well, even Admiral Kirk got some center seat time. Admiral Hanson at Wolf 359. Or the battle of sector 001 in First Contact. Seems at least an Admiral on the lower end can still weld a captain's seat.

But a 5 star fleet admiral? No way, every fleet admiral we've seen in Trek canon rocked a desk job at SF HQ.

Commodore or Rear Admiral maybe, but anything higher would be at SF HQ in charge of overall strategy than commanding organic assets. Admiral Ross and Admiral Paris are examples of strategic commanders and not field commanders.

Raz Beraht · Posted Sat 06 Aug, 2022 3:01 PM

Yeah just have us all be captains. The leaders and officers of fleets can be admirals, that would at least make some sense and have a justification.

[Discussion] - Fleet admiral rank in Star Trek online

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