[Chris Wilkinson]

Hey Guys, I want to present you with a scenario, And I would like to see what each of you would do if confronted with it.

Your the XO of a US Nuclear Missle Submarine. In Russia there is a group of rebel soldiers who are openly against the United States who have taken control of a submarine and nuclear weapons base in vladivostok. They have threatened that if anyone approaches their position, they will fire nuclear weapons at the United States and Japan.

Your submarine sets sail to patrol an area of the Pacific, however after a while, you recieve an Emergency Action Message(EAM) telling you that the rebels ICBM's are being fueled and you have 1 hour until they are ready to fire and you are too prepare to launch your nuclear weapons at the rebels location.

As you prepare to fire, you are engaged by a Russian Attack Submarine and you take damage however, during the battle you begin to recieve an EAM however, its cut off due to damage to the communications system.

You have an incomplete EAM which cannot be validated - which could have said anything from confirming your order to fire, to calling off your attack - Your Communications system is damaged with only 25 minutes until the Rebels nukes are ready to fire.

What would you do?

[Dodgers]

Interesting scenario, I would make a logical decision and fire my nuke to destroy the rebels and stop them from lunching theirs, it's better to be safe than sorry because if I don't fire they 'mite' fire killing many more people, in the end the needs of they many outweigh the needs of the few.

[Chris Wilkinson]

Interesting scenario, I would make a logical decision and fire my nuke to destroy the rebels and stop them from lunching theirs, it's better to be safe than sorry because if I don't fire they 'mite' fire killing many more people, in the end the needs of they many outweigh the needs of the few.

You do realise, that if the rebels had surrendered, and you fire. You would be starting a Nuclear War with Russia

[Dodgers]

You do realise, that if the rebels had surrendered, and you fire. You would be starting a Nuclear War with Russia

I do, but am only going to destroy a military base they would have killed millions of civilians and 'they' would have started a war. I guess there is no real right decision in this scenario, it's a bit like the Kobayashi Maru you can't win.

[Mikester92]

Russia, China, India, Israel, Japan, the US, and several countries in Europe all have anti-ballistic missiles (ABMs) which together form a protective coat in their surrounding areas. Considering these assailants are rebels, I would expect Russia to either counter their attacks with a post-lauch code or with their ABMs. However, if they chose not to, I am sure that all those other countries would together shoot down any nuclear weapons in the area for their own interest. Considering these facts, I would hold fire. It's not my place anyways to fire a nuclear weapon without direct orders from the president.

Interesting scenario though, but I am sure that our Ballistic Missile Defense Systems will fail in my case.

[Chris Wilkinson]

Russia, China, India, Israel, Japan, the US, and several countries in Europe all have anti-ballistic missiles (ABMs) which together form a protective coat in their surrounding areas. Considering these assailants are rebels, I would expect Russia to either counter their attacks with a post-lauch code or with their ABMs. However, if they chose not to, I am sure that all those other countries would together shoot down any nuclear weapons in the area for their own interest. Considering these facts, I would hold fire. It's not my place anyways to fire a nuclear weapon without direct orders from the president.

Interesting scenario though, but I am sure that our Ballistic Missile Defense Systems will fail in my case.

I like your thinking, and you do have orders from the President to fire nuclear weapons.

The ABM shield, I believe, is not as effective against ICBM's, plus, once the payload in the ICBM is released, you could have a large number of warheads coming down. So Against ICBM's, I don't know how effective an ABM shield would be

[Bondgadget]

I would fire the nuclear missile at the rebels. I'm gonna go through this logically and show you how I came to this conclusion.

As you prepare to fire, you are engaged by a Russian Attack Submarine and you take damage

Well that line in itself is a good reason for not giving a damn and firing the nuke anyway. War at this point with Russia is inevitable whether or not you fire your weapons. Since it was not stated that the submarine was in rebel hands, I will have to assume that the submarine is in the control of the Russian Federation. Therefore they have attacked a US Submarine in International Waters, breaking the Geneva conventions and probably killing US naval Officers which would of started some conflict.

You have an incomplete EAM which cannot be validated - which could have said anything from confirming your order to fire, to calling off your attack - Your Communications system is damaged with only 25 minutes until the Rebels nukes are ready to fire.

Because of the Time limit you have on this one, you gotta make a decision straight away, the other orders never came through and the lives of countless millions of people are possibly in the XO (or my) hands. Vladivostok, has a population of just over 500,000 and though it may sound like i'm being really mean and that I have completely taken Spock's quote out of context, "The needs of the many, out way the needs of the few". Not to mention that you have orders to fire as stated previously:

you recieve an Emergency Action Message(EAM) telling you that the rebels ICBM's are being fueled and you have 1 hour until they are ready to fire and you are too prepare to launch your nuclear weapons at the rebels location.

Therefore there is nothing countering these orders, as the other EAM was not received.

In all honesty though it is a pretty tricky situation, there is a chance that a ABM shield could protect the US and possibly Japan, though Japan does have ABMS they do not have ABM Capability on that scale yet, but all in all you either destroy a portion of a city or let them destroy countless, and I would hesitate but not for long to press the red button if it would mean saving millions.

[LynxMukka]

You do realise, that if the rebels had surrendered, and you fire. You would be starting a Nuclear War with Russia

If that's the case, then the rebels weren't really rebels at all.

[Zach]

I would do the most logical thing and validate the EAM, especially if it were coming directly from the US Pacific Command, or the Pentagon. It is the job of the XO, to make sure that the orders are still valid, even if it jepordizes a war. Also, the XO is to make sure that the CO of the vessel doesn't launch his missiles without a confirmed order, and to make sure that the launch order wasn't rescinded by the EAM that was cut off. (As a side note, I know the movie that this scenario is from. )

[Chris Wilkinson]

I would do the most logical thing and validate the EAM, especially if it were coming directly from the US Pacific Command, or the Pentagon. It is the job of the XO, to make sure that the orders are still valid, even if it jepordizes a war. Also, the XO is to make sure that the CO of the vessel doesn't launch his missiles without a confirmed order, and to make sure that the launch order wasn't rescinded by the EAM that was cut off. (As a side note, I know the movie that this scenario is from. )

Lol, That's cheating But fair enough there Arma and nice choice of movie watching

If that's the case, then the rebels weren't really rebels at all.

Even if they surrendered prior to you launching your strike, then they are still rebels. You just don't know they surrendered, so techncially your striking Russian Troops.

[LynxMukka]

Not really, the intelligence already suggests that we know they are rebel troops and for them to be considered rebel troops, the Russian Government needs to have shown an official stance against them.

Assuming that has happened, if a nuclear strike on that base was provided then the Russian Government should have no specific issue with them being killed to the point where they wish to retaliate to the US. More so, the Russians are probably underestimated in this scenario since they would be most in support the of the US otherwise they'd be left open to the risk of their whole country being bombed if the rebel troops were successful in launching missiles.

[Zach]

But, if the rebels have given up, and that EAM is to call off the launch of your missiles, and you launch without checking, you would have just started Global Thermonuclear war.

[Jadzia Flex]

Hey Guys, I want to present you with a scenario, And I would like to see what each of you would do if confronted with it.

Your the XO of a US Nuclear Missle Submarine. In Russia there is a group of rebel soldiers who are openly against the United States who have taken control of a submarine and nuclear weapons base in vladivostok. They have threatened that if anyone approaches their position, they will fire nuclear weapons at the United States and Japan.

Your submarine sets sail to patrol an area of the Pacific, however after a while, you recieve an Emergency Action Message(EAM) telling you that the rebels ICBM's are being fueled and you have 1 hour until they are ready to fire and you are too prepare to launch your nuclear weapons at the rebels location.

As you prepare to fire, you are engaged by a Russian Attack Submarine and you take damage however, during the battle you begin to recieve an EAM however, its cut off due to damage to the communications system.

You have an incomplete EAM which cannot be validated - which could have said anything from confirming your order to fire, to calling off your attack - Your Communications system is damaged with only 25 minutes until the Rebels nukes are ready to fire.

What would you do?

A very interesting and thought about scenario. Personally I don't know what I would do for sure unless I was in that position. However I speculate that I would fire.

[Chris Wilkinson]

I would fire the nuclear missile at the rebels. I'm gonna go through this logically and show you how I came to this conclusion.


Well that line in itself is a good reason for not giving a damn and firing the nuke anyway. War at this point with Russia is inevitable whether or not you fire your weapons. Since it was not stated that the submarine was in rebel hands, I will have to assume that the submarine is in the control of the Russian Federation. Therefore they have attacked a US Submarine in International Waters, breaking the Geneva conventions and probably killing US naval Officers which would of started some conflict.



Because of the Time limit you have on this one, you gotta make a decision straight away, the other orders never came through and the lives of countless millions of people are possibly in the XO (or my) hands. Vladivostok, has a population of just over 500,000 and though it may sound like i'm being really mean and that I have completely taken Spock's quote out of context, "The needs of the many, out way the needs of the few". Not to mention that you have orders to fire as stated previously:



Therefore there is nothing countering these orders, as the other EAM was not received.

In all honesty though it is a pretty tricky situation, there is a chance that a ABM shield could protect the US and possibly Japan, though Japan does have ABMS they do not have ABM Capability on that scale yet, but all in all you either destroy a portion of a city or let them destroy countless, and I would hesitate but not for long to press the red button if it would mean saving millions.

I like your response Bond, However keep in mind, there is always the possibility of recieving said EAM again, If you can repair your communication systems.

I like the logic you have put behind this, and it is true that the many must come before the few, however, in this case, that few, could result in the many dying no matter what course of action you will take.

eg.

You don't fire, Rebels Fire, People Die
You Fire, Rebels Die, Everyone Lives,
You Fire, Rebels had surrendered and you'd been called off, Russia retaliates, People Die

[Bondgadget]

I like your response Bond, However keep in mind, there is always the possibility of recieving said EAM again, If you can repair your communication systems.

I'm gonna assume that by the time you have repaired your comms that the nuke would of been sent of and therefore waiting for an EAM would be incredibly irresponsible.

You Fire, Rebels Die, Everyone Lives,

Apart from the 500,000 people who live in the vicinity of the base. US would of retaliated to the attack on the US Sub in International Waters, breaking the Geneva Conventions.

You Fire, Rebels had surrendered and you'd been called off, Russia retaliates, People Die

Well at least the rebels died. Also Russia is already in enough trouble for attacking the US ship in International Waters breaking the Geneva Convention. You know what, the US could just say that it fired the missile accidentally because the attack on the Nuclear Sub, by the Russian attack Sub, short circuited some launching system which cause the missile to be launched prematurely. lol