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Post ID: 345917
#106
Posted Tue 12 Dec, 2017 8:30 AM
–
Last edited by Nic; Tue 12 Dec, 2017 4:28 PM.
Just wanted to echo what a lot of people in this thread have already said: What a great show The Orville is!
In the beginning of the season, when Discovery just started (and I was convinced it was going to suck as it didn't feel AT ALL like Star Trek back then) I considered it the "savior" of Star Trek. I was like "Fine, if Discovery refuses to be a Star Trek series we at least still have The Orville!"
With a bit of imagination it's quite easy to consider The Orville a Star Trek series. It could just be another Quadrant of space which has introduced some new races and/or it could be a slightly alternative timeline. (one in which the Federation has grown into an organisation with a slightly less rigid stick up its behind)
By now I do think that Discovery "recovered" and has become a lot more Star Trek-like and throughout the season I've slowly grown to like it.
That said The Orville is my favorite right now and after years of not having new Star Trek episodes how lucky are we to get two series of Star Trek at the same time!!!
What a time to be alive.
Edit: check this video out, good breakdown on why The Orville is so received: https://youtu.be/pm-BSqY9ybU
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Posted Mon 18 Dec, 2017 3:39 AM
Just saw "Mad Idolatry" and thoroughly enjoyed every minute. I don't think ST would have taken the chance Orville did with this idea.
Wow, Seth MacFarlane wrote that episode. ST attempted to go this direction with Picard a couple times. Who Watches the Watchers is an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTaj4nNH5ko. MacFarlane definitely took it to the next level when he directly wrote in the episode that religion was just part of a society's evolution, whereas, ST only implied it multiple times, in TNG.
Also, in the episode, the aliens say that Isaac didn't lead the way to secularism, they got there naturally. How could they get there naturally if Isaac is there instructing them on the truth about Kelly. Surely he put them on the road to secularism?
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Post ID: 346375
#108
Posted Mon 18 Dec, 2017 4:57 AM
–
Last edited by aceman67; Mon 18 Dec, 2017 5:32 AM.
The cornerstone of many, many of the world's religions is choice or free agency, and I can see a population that, while open to science and what not, still hold on to religious views.
Science and Religion are not mutually exclusive, and can, have and are able to co-exist. The best example I can think of that shows this is the fact that the first person to postulate the theory that came to be the Big Bang theory was a Belgian Catholic Priest, Monseigneur Georges Lemaître. Here's a man of faith and science, coming up with a theory that many see as saying that God didn't create the universe.
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Posted Mon 18 Dec, 2017 5:58 AM
The cornerstone of many, many of the world's religions is choice or free agency, and I can see a population that, while open to science and what not, still hold on to religious views.
Science and Religion are not mutually exclusive, and can, have and are able to co-exist. The best example I can think of that shows this is the fact that the first person to postulate the theory that came to be the Big Bang theory was a Belgian Catholic Priest, Monseigneur Georges Lemaître. Here's a man of faith and science, coming up with a theory that many see as saying that God didn't create the universe.
I'm one of those people who still hold their religious views while still trust the scientific process. Right, I don't believe they are mutually exclusive, either.
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Posted Mon 18 Dec, 2017 7:32 AM
Also, in the episode, the aliens say that Isaac didn't lead the way to secularism, they got there naturally. How could they get there naturally if Isaac is there instructing them on the truth about Kelly. Surely he put them on the road to secularism?
Look how it was with us, after 1000 years of catholic control what was right and what was wrong things started to change and we did not had an Isaac because of people like Galileo, Lutter DaVinci and this was a process that took centuries.
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Posted Mon 18 Dec, 2017 9:33 AM
How does one watch this in the UK? I cannot find it anywhere but maybe i'm not looking hard enough.
I must admit i have my reservations about it. For a start i find Mr McFarlane to be an utter arse of the highest order, and anything with his grinning idiot face plastered all over it immediately puts me off!
And secondly i think that the show seems to be unsure what it wants to actually be, is it a Trek spoof or is in trying to be comedy-sci-fi (shudder).
I'll give it a chance if i can watch it somewhere though.
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Posted Mon 18 Dec, 2017 9:50 AM
I know Fox UK bought the rights.
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Posted Mon 18 Dec, 2017 5:25 PM
Look how it was with us, after 1000 years of catholic control what was right and what was wrong things started to change and we did not had an Isaac because of people like Galileo, Lutter DaVinci and this was a process that took centuries.
I'm probably misunderstanding you, do you think the Catholic Church is on the road to secularism the way the phasing planet was? The Catholic Church had to change their beliefs but I wouldn't say they're going to lose their faith. The Catholic Church had Galileo under house arrest for "vehemently suspect of heresy" for the rest of his life. Martin Luther wanted the Catholic Church to review its teachings of his Ninety-five Theses, not attempting to drift toward secularism. Leonardo da Vinci has a hand in drifting the Catholic Church to secularism, too? I don't see them as having a hand in the Church's possible drift toward secularism at all.
With Isaac, I don't see how they could get there "naturally" with an artificial lifeform telling them the truth about Kelly. It'd be one thing if the people started to realize it and just ignored Isaac, but I'm figuring that's not what happened. Surely he put them on the road to secularism haha he's a talking robot for crying out loud haha
- - - Updated - - -
How does one watch this in the UK? I cannot find it anywhere but maybe i'm not looking hard enough.
I must admit i have my reservations about it. For a start i find Mr McFarlane to be an utter arse of the highest order, and anything with his grinning idiot face plastered all over it immediately puts me off!
And secondly i think that the show seems to be unsure what it wants to actually be, is it a Trek spoof or is in trying to be comedy-sci-fi (shudder).
I'll give it a chance if i can watch it somewhere though.
That's EXACTLY how I felt originally haha but I wouldn't dare voice it. I think MacFarlane knows exactly what he wants it to be. It's obviously a Trek spoof and a sci-fi comedy, right? It's a humorous imitation of ST with classic features of the show being exaggerated for comic effect AND it has classic bits of comedy about day-to-day interactions, too. I think that's exactly what MacFarlane was aiming for being a ST fan and the creator of "The Family Guy."
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Posted Mon 18 Dec, 2017 6:45 PM
Maybe. Although I am less convinced McFarelane is working for a comedy spoof. The show takes itself seriously, just not as serious as Star Trek. Clearly there are light-hearted elements but they are less frequent than before. To be sure, there have been some rather serious topics lately.
Sadly, I think the "Family Guy" and McFarlene's other works are hampering several people to consider the show with open eyes and ears.
I may have said that before though ...
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Posted Tue 19 Dec, 2017 10:20 PM
I like it. It has gotten better with time. I am probably going to go back and watch them all again via 'On Demand™' after the new year, just so I can see what I missed the first time through. I am looking forward to it.
I like Bortas. Give me some more of that.
However:
I DO NOT like the ship's exterior design. The saucer is fine, and the transition to the lower engine is actually kind of spiffy. But the continuous loops? No. I don't know why I don't like them, I just know that I don't. Sue me.
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But J Lee is from my home town, so the whole 'local boy makes good' vibe is working in his favor.
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Posted Wed 20 Dec, 2017 2:54 AM
–
Last edited by Allan Hood; Thu 21 Dec, 2017 5:27 AM.
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Wow, no way hahaha I was just thinking there was something familiar about him transferring to Engineering but I couldn't put my finger on it hahaha
Posted Thu 21 Dec, 2017 1:09 PM
Does anyone know when season 2 of the Orville will be out? September-October 2018?
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Posted Thu 21 Dec, 2017 1:11 PM
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Posted Wed 03 Jan, 2018 8:43 AM
Oh boy, I just caught up with the latest episodes (last three ones), and are they so good and complete with how they handle their humour v. story plot. I'm honestly looking forward to more Orville now hands down.
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Quote
Post ID: 347596
#120
Posted Wed 03 Jan, 2018 10:40 AM
I'm probably misunderstanding you, do you think the Catholic Church is on the road to secularism the way the phasing planet was? The Catholic Church had to change their beliefs but I wouldn't say they're going to lose their faith. The Catholic Church had Galileo under house arrest for "vehemently suspect of heresy" for the rest of his life. Martin Luther wanted the Catholic Church to review its teachings of his Ninety-five Theses, not attempting to drift toward secularism. Leonardo da Vinci has a hand in drifting the Catholic Church to secularism, too? I don't see them as having a hand in the Church's possible drift toward secularism at all.
Personally I think that there will be a moment in the future at which we find ourselves realizing there are no more religious people left. It's gonna be a long while from now but I think it is inevitable.
At the very least religion as we know it will vanish. The concept of a sentient entity that created the Universe with a purpose and who is watching us and will judge us after we die is untenable as it is but will become less and less defensible as we gain more knowledge about the universe.
I mean; at this moment we can, with a confidence near certainty, explain the universe around us from now back until one billionth of a second after what we call the big bang without the need for any deity whatsoever. Even for the parts we do not yet know to explain we have evidence. (dark energy and dark matter, which we know nothing about, except that they exist)
Surely we can all agree that the Earth is round, that all the creation stories in the abrahamic religions are at the best very ancient myths and that the historical authenticity (which is partial at best) begins in the 13th century before the common era ends at the very latest with the start of the new testament, 0CE.
I am not knowledgable enough in the Hindu, Buddhist or the chinese religions to specifically dipute their scriptures but they're included in the knowledge that they too are mostly reliant on the location and parent's conviction for the determination of their followers faith in them. Born in India, and/or your parents are Hindu? Well, chances are you're going to be Hindu yourself. Same goes for Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, [fill in your favorite religion].
That would mean that (I take one of the more rediculous and least believable religions as an example and in no way imply that religion has any credibility) if the one true religion would be (ther can be only one) the latter day saints and derivatives (there's more than one flavour, like christianity and islam and so on] that would mean that most of the world's population would go to hell after they die simply because they were born in a location where the LSD and derivatives were not the dominant religion. Europe, the middle east, the far east, south america except for brasil. That would be so wrong that were I to be given proof that such a god did exist I'd join the opposition, and start a rebellion.
There are reasons why there is such a resistance against giving up religion. First and foremost the arrogance of man. People simply cannot believe that their existence will end. That their being, their thoughts and experiences, will vanish with their death except for the physical records they leave behind. Another reason is that people simply don't want to admit to themselves that they've wasted at least a lot of their time on something that isn't true. This reason is more powerful the more active and zealous the believer has been, especially if they have converted others to their faith. They cannot or will not consider the possibility they might have had a great impact on peoples lives in name of something that isn't true.
But the most important element in the prolonged existence of religion is the fact that the thought processes of religious people and those of atheists are different from the very foundation on up. Theists and ex-theists cannot comprehend the complete absence of religious thoughts whatsoever in the thought processes of a true atheist. The more “laws” a faith has, the less a follower of that faith will be able to comprehend that complete absense of thought related to religion. When I think there is never a moment in which I think “if I do this then I am breaking the rules of this or that religion” or “that would piss off Allah”.
(that last bit is a bit hard to verbalize in english I hope it's comprehensible)
To make a long story…. Well, less long than it could've been…
Slowly but surely the new generations, with the improvement of education and the trickling down of education into the least educated parts of the human population, will become more and more secular. At one point there shall be a generation in every part of the globe, whose parents will not force their own religion upon them and give them the freedom to make a decision about it when they're ready to do so. Their lives will be the first to live in “true” freedom of religion (there is no place with freedom of religion on Earth today) and will mark the beginning of a secular society like the one in the Orville seemed to have become.
With Isaac, I don't see how they could get there "naturally" with an artificial lifeform telling them the truth about Kelly. It'd be one thing if the people started to realize it and just ignored Isaac, but I'm figuring that's not what happened. Surely he put them on the road to secularism haha he's a talking robot for crying out loud haha
It always happens naturally. Religious people cannot be converted to Atheism. It never happened, never happens, never will happen. In fact it is well known that most religious people will not accept that their religion is false even in the face of hard indisputable evidence. They shall believe their faith's doctrine above any proof. If I produce a signed confession written in his own blood from Muhammed himself stating that he used the power of faith to unify people across racial, tribal or national boundries in order to unify the Arab tribes under one law, one banner (just like it seemed to have done in the Levant for the semites, like it did for the Europeans during that time) and literally having Muhammed's written statements that he is not a prophet and that no god or allah exists they will reject that and deny that it is genuine or claim that the devil made them write or say it.
So Isaac telling the truth about Kelly would make no difference at all.
No the only thing that can help with convincing a religious person his faith is wrong is scientific knowledge and understanding. Only when they reali
- - - Updated - - -
That's EXACTLY how I felt originally haha but I wouldn't dare voice it. I think MacFarlane knows exactly what he wants it to be. It's obviously a Trek spoof and a sci-fi comedy, right? It's a humorous imitation of ST with classic features of the show being exaggerated for comic effect AND it has classic bits of comedy about day-to-day interactions, too. I think that's exactly what MacFarlane was aiming for being a ST fan and the creator of "The Family Guy."[/QUOTE]
LOL I was typing a very detailed reply about the intentions of McFarlane in the beginning (before Orville) and what it turned into but I found that he himself has done that already for me.
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/seth-ma...th-the-orville
𝔡𝔢𝔲ℨ𝔦𝔤𝔢 𝔅𝔯𝔢𝔡𝔞