[Scarlett]

I saw the following in the Prelude thread:

Oh, and I had to do some research on currencies in the UFP. I have known for quite some time that the UFP abolished money but in some episodes spread out mainly through DS9 and TNG a few characters refer to 'Federation Credits'. Not much is known apart from that so I decided to use them for the Cafe. Again if you disagree I can always go back an edit it.

It's not wholly accurate the Federation does not use currency even though Picard has directly said so in First Contact. The reason his statement should not be considered the final word on the subject is for exactly the reasons sited above (Latinum aside).

SO, I think it was perfectly acceptable to use "Credits" in the piece.

SO SO - once we are out our own, will we still be "buying" stuff amongst ourselves or at the bar ... or something?

[Asteropax]

Although money isn't really a thing for Starfleet anymore, civilians had to use something which is why Latinum was used so much. In Insurrection, Captain Picard stated that rejuvenation was more valuable than Gold Pressed Latinum. It appeared as a major currency throughout DS9 and on several occasions it was known that the station had a supply on board. I think it is safe to say Latinum was the civilian currency of the Federation.

There were several unofficial currencies used in Star Trek, such as the Replicator Rations used during ST:VOY. Since resources were limited on Voyager they had to use a system to extend the duration of their supplies. These rations could be spent on provisions or saved for later use. When they had enough for something, they could trade them in for something they were wanting that was special.

I like the idea of having some form of credits as an on ship currency.

[LogicalLeopard]

*LOL* I was just browsing through, and thought I'd give my two cents (no pun intended) on this subject.

I guess there's two ways to look at this, behind the scenes and onscreen. Behind the screens, Memory Alpha notes on the "Federation Credit" page indicate that Gene Roddenberry decreed there to be no money on not only Earth, but the Federation, period. Which Ronald Moore thought was a bunch of hooey." Moore notes that this happened "by the time I joined TNG," which is an interesting distinction, because in the first episode of TNG, as I recall, Beverly Crusher is buying a bolt of fabric at Farpoint Station.

Since onscreen, we see a lot of violations of this and references to Federation credits, I've developed this headcanon as to how things probably work: It is explicitly said by humans on several occasions that they dont use money. It seemed like Kirk was only familiar with money in the historical context on The Voyage Home, Picard says the economics of the future work differently in First Contact, and Nog says that it wasn't his fault that Jake's species (not the Federation, but humans in particular) stopped using money. So it seems to me that humans dont use money, although the Federation does.

How can humans not use money? Picard says, "The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century... The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity." He also tells one of the 20th century people who were cryogenically frozen in the TNG episode "The Neutral Zone" "A lot has changed in three hundred years," said Picard. "People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of 'things.' We have eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions." So it appears that people work jobs because they want to find personal fulfillment and also want to advance humanity. What makes this possible? In my opinion - replicators. With replicators, everyone gets their basic needs met - food, clothing, shelter, etc. Money would serve no purpose, because you could literally replicate it. (This is why latinum has value - I believe it has been said that it cant be replicated.) Or you could replicate what you needed. So, it seems to me that humanity has everything organized into perfect communism - people do the things they are best at doing, because they enjoy doing them and they enjoy helping out the earth. If you make housing free, and not prestigious, you can just move and live where you want. Think of how much real estate we have simply because people haven't purchased it yet. How much more you can build. And how many people can just move to Mars, the Moon, or colonies. <br>
I dont know if the rest of the Federation works that way, though, but even if it did, you have to have some method of exchange with interplanetary goods and services. I think that's where the credit system comes in. I think that also explains why so many humans are in Starfleet - they have no problem working for free. Or building ships for free. They appear to be able to access a stipend so you can buy unique goods, like Beverly Crusher in Encounter at Farpoint, or how Riker and other officers had money to gamble in Quarks, but accessing a stipend really isn't necessary most of the time because you're living on a ship, getting all your meals and housing free, and even your clothing, knick knacks, etc free through replicator rations.
I kind of imagine a 24th century human living on earth, going to school free, and when they get to be of working age, they are slotted into a career, given a Zillow style app to pick an apartment or house somewhere on earth, maybe in a waiting list. Some housing is probably flagged temporary for students and workers in that community. You get a government issued replicator, a certain amount of food matter, and a certain amount of raw matter to use each month. Or maybe you skip it and go to a private shop where people are making clothing handmade, or furniture. Your job, and the jobs of others are generating enough value that Earth can give you credits if you need them, like if you plan to go to a planet that uses money, or just move offworld entirely and need startup money. Or if you join Starfleet and you regularly go to new places. But if you're on earth, you just ask for what you need, and no more.

[Sul-Matuul]

The reason money no longer is used/exists is because the Federation is living in essentially a "free energy" era. They have mastered antimatter reactors and the ability to use replicators to turn pure energy into matter in any form. So when you can make anything from any unlimited power source suddenly there's no point in charging people within the Federation for objects or services that use energy.

That said though, I reckon you'd still have some sort of ration system in place for certain times, like when a colony has limited fuel for a reactor to generate power, or a ship is on a long distance survey mission (like Voyager).
So i think the way STO uses "energy credits" is a good way to visualize that rationing of the energy needed to create objects or run systems.

But to interact with those outside the Federation? They've gotta have some means of barter with alien societies, perhaps some form of universal "currency" that most species would recognize as payment or return for services rendered. In that ENT episode with the repair station we saw the use of plasma coolant as currency to pay for repairs.
Perhaps when dealing with alien societies its up to the senior officer present to negotiate a fair cost and repayment with something of value to those being met with? That's an interesting side for any roleplaying aspect i think!

[Mack]

Here's the thing, has it actually been pointed out that the 'whole' Federation is currency free?

You see, I only remember Picard telling Lily about no money in future (in context to Earth). Similarly, it's always been referred as "Earth is paradise". No other planet has technically been referred to that or has it been directly mentioned that, for example, Betazed or Andoria are currency free.

Similarly, there's still gambling in the future with another currency - latinum. Ferengi come in here, with their whole rules of acquisition and culture based around profit, trade and 'Great Material Continuum'. (I almost feel as if Ferengi were created as a pun to today's corporate cultures hah).

Whether used for fun or exchange, Federation officers would keep a stock of latinum either by winning Latinum or exchange of resources or favours.

[Sul-Matuul]

Ooo good point Mack, i'd never really considered Picard was just talking about Earth for Lilly's perspective!
I just sort of assumed that most post-warp civilizations would be in a similar situation where money isn't needed. Once you have infinite energy and can turn that into "stuff" you don't need to worry about costs. Andorians, Vulcans etc, they all seemed to be more ahead of Earth in every sense at least until the Federation was created.

I guess latinum would be kept about as it seems to be a common precious material for bartering for certain commodities.

[Taku]

Then there's the Delta Quadrant.

Possessing warp capability is not a sign of replication.
The Kazon had warp but wanted replicators, and they bartered water.
If I recall correctly, Neelix hadn't seen a replicator before, the same with the Ocampans.
Did the Hirogen have replicators before taking over Voyager?

The whole VOY series was chok-a-block with species that had warp capability but not replicator technology.

Turning matter into energy is easy. Turning energy into matter seems to be a little harder. Then, getting it to become what you've asked for seems to be harder still.

I'll take my opinions and go now. I don't normally drop in here. Feel free to ignore what I've said if it turns out I'm an idiot.

[LogicalLeopard]

Here's the thing, has it actually been pointed out that the 'whole' Federation is currency free?

You see, I only remember Picard telling Lily about no money in future (in context to Earth). Similarly, it's always been referred as "Earth is paradise". No other planet has technically been referred to that or has it been directly mentioned that, for example, Betazed or Andoria are currency free.

I dont think it has ever been said that the whole Federation is currency free onscreen, or hinted at, unless you interpret Picard's statement that way. And I dont think you can, because it seemed like he was talking about Earth. Gene Roddenberry said it apparently offscreen later in TNG, but I think this was after there had already been instances of money occurring, such as Beverly buying things in the first episode of TNG. Gene was inconsistent about a lot.<br>

It seems clear that money of some sort exists in the Federation and is able to be used by Starfleet personnel. Quark's Bar proves it. Quark is not running a charity, and has to be accepting something of value from the Starfleet officers there for drinks and holosuite time. I think the most likely thing is that Starfleet officers have access to a stipend, even though they hardly ever need to use it, because all of their needs and the majority of their wants do not cost anything, as they can be replicated. Memory Alpha says that Beverly Crusher bought that fabric from Encounter at Farpoint and had it charged to her account on the Enterprise.

- - - Updated - - -

Then there's the Delta Quadrant.

Possessing warp capability is not a sign of replication.
The Kazon had warp but wanted replicators, and they bartered water.
If I recall correctly, Neelix hadn't seen a replicator before, the same with the Ocampans.
Did the Hirogen have replicators before taking over Voyager?

The whole VOY series was chok-a-block with species that had warp capability but not replicator technology.

Turning matter into energy is easy. Turning energy into matter seems to be a little harder. Then, getting it to become what you've asked for seems to be harder still.

I'll take my opinions and go now. I don't normally drop in here. Feel free to ignore what I've said if it turns out I'm an idiot.

Seems like replicator technology goes together with transporter technology. If you have transporters that move people, you should have replicators that can make anything you want.

- - - Updated - - -

The reason money no longer is used/exists is because the Federation is living in essentially a "free energy" era. They have mastered antimatter reactors and the ability to use replicators to turn pure energy into matter in any form. So when you can make anything from any unlimited power source suddenly there's no point in charging people within the Federation for objects or services that use energy.

That said though, I reckon you'd still have some sort of ration system in place for certain times, like when a colony has limited fuel for a reactor to generate power, or a ship is on a long distance survey mission (like Voyager).
So i think the way STO uses "energy credits" is a good way to visualize that rationing of the energy needed to create objects or run systems.

But to interact with those outside the Federation? They've gotta have some means of barter with alien societies, perhaps some form of universal "currency" that most species would recognize as payment or return for services rendered. In that ENT episode with the repair station we saw the use of plasma coolant as currency to pay for repairs.
Perhaps when dealing with alien societies its up to the senior officer present to negotiate a fair cost and repayment with something of value to those being met with? That's an interesting side for any roleplaying aspect i think!

I think you need fuel for the replicators, whether it's solid or energy I dont know. Voyager was on a replicator rationing system, which means that whatever supplied them was finite. They actually used replicator rations as a form of currency as well. I think that there has to be at least an external currency, because wayyyy too many other species used money. But then again, since those species used money, even advanced species like the Klingons and the Ferengi, who had access to replicators, why wouldn't the Federation use it too? Seems like they would, even though people aren't DEPENDENT on money like we are.