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Post ID: 380584
#46
Posted Tue 22 Jan, 2019 4:20 PM
From time to time I wish you would think before you write.
…
That's an interestingly hostile statement.
Teach me how this systems creates a disadvantage for casual and new players?
Look, I get that people who play daily are going to get through this system faster. I also understand that if someone with the perks, performs "better" than those without them. What I do not understand, is the perception that the new/casual player is disadvantaged by that.
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Posted Tue 22 Jan, 2019 5:29 PM
Teach me how this systems creates a disadvantage for casual and new players?
Look, I get that people who play daily are going to get through this system faster. I also understand that if someone with the perks, performs "better" than those without them. What I do not understand, is the perception that the new/casual player is disadvantaged by that.
Anyone just joining the game would not have any of those, and would need to progress towards them. Which means those that have completed some, or all, will have an advantage over those who don't, the advantage they get is going to be in DPS, survivability, manoeuvrability, and so forth, which will give them an edge in DPS races and PvP matches. If none of that concerns someone, then it doesn't matter.
So if you are new to the game, manage to get all the same equipment, but don't have the endeavour perks, you are at a disadvantage to someone who has the same stuff, and some/all of the perks, because they can outperform you, the new player has to catch up in timegated content to reach the onpaper skill of someone else.
Let's say we both race cars, I've been doing it for years, and after each race, I decide to upgrade my car, new engine, go faster stripes, etc. You have come in with a fast car, the same as mine at it's base, but none of the modifications, on paper, I'm always going to beat you until you catch up on mods to your car.
No I don't know how cars work, but the example still fits.
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Post ID: 380592
#48
Posted Tue 22 Jan, 2019 5:36 PM
No I don't know how cars work, but the example still fits.
I know as much about cars as you, which is enough for this analogy. But here's the part that (I feel) often gets overlooked.
No part of STO requires a car that can win Daytona. We just need to be able to get up to 70 on the Interstate. Either of these cars can do that handily.
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Posted Tue 22 Jan, 2019 5:43 PM
Originally Posted by Lt. Commander Data
Admiral after 137 years, what do you feel was your greatest achievement?
Originally Posted by Admiral Leonard McCoy
Well boy, I have nearly have my Personal Endeavor rank to 450. And here I though completing Starfleet Medical training took forever.
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Posted Tue 22 Jan, 2019 5:46 PM
No part of STO requires a car that can win Daytona. We just need to be able to get up to 70 on the Interstate. Either of these cars can do that handily.
That's true, but you won't be getting as high in the DPS charts, and if PvP were still worth any salt, you'd be losing to others who had more than you did. While there's no game content that requires these boosts, competitive rivalry between players will be effected. It means you are timegated to getting DPS as high as someone else by the endeavour system.
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Posted Tue 22 Jan, 2019 5:57 PM
That's true, but you won't be getting as high in the DPS charts...
In a court of law I could take the stand and truthfully say I've never seen those charts. So, no loss to me.
...and if PvP were still worth any salt, you'd be losing to others who had more than you did.
Not important to me.
I just wanna fly my little pretend pixels, have fun in some queues, and be content with what I've got. I don't really care about keeping up with the Joneses beyond the basics.
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Posted Tue 22 Jan, 2019 6:00 PM
I just wanna fly my little pretend pixels, have fun in some queues, and be content with what I've got. I don't really care about keeping up with the Joneses beyond the basics.
I mean, that's you, that's fine, nothing wrong with that! Personally, it's not something that concerns me either, but for some people, it's what they find enjoyment in, getting the best DPS, working out the best combinations for builds. The change to the endeavour system makes it a bit harder for people fresh to the game to get to those stages, if it's something that interests them.
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Posted Tue 22 Jan, 2019 6:08 PM
–
Last edited by Bridger; Tue 22 Jan, 2019 6:22 PM.
Teach me how this systems creates a disadvantage for casual and new players?
Look, I get that people who play daily are going to get through this system faster. I also understand that if someone with the perks, performs "better" than those without them. What I do not understand, is the perception that the new/casual player is disadvantaged by that.
It is very simple:
Star Trek Online like any other MMO has progressions systems in place that will provide the player with benefits over time.
STO has the following:
Reputations, Doff, Crafting, Specializations, Admiralty, Personal Endeavors
Each of this systms has a lager or smaler impact on the player and it's performance in the game the most importan ones are Reputaions, Doffs, Specializations and the soon to be released Personal Endeavors.
All of this systems have a timegate until they can be completed, Personal Endeavors will have the longest to complete this means every player who does them will build up an advantage over a casual player and a new player and the more time has passed the bigger this advantage will be.
One problem is the issue of being awarded the leaver penalty, I have seen it often enough that people who are simply not able to keep up in queues will receive it because they performed far less than the rest of the team not to mention that they lead the team down.
The more the palyer falls behind the curve the harder it will be for it to keep up and don't think we won't get more systems in the next two years.
“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes;
he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever” ~ Chinese Proverb
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Posted Tue 22 Jan, 2019 6:18 PM
Damn right there's nothing wrong wth it!
In my experience, the problem comes from the Joneses then bringing it back to my doorstep. I could share an anecdote about having that sort of experience with fleet-mates, but we're veering into an unproductive area, so instead I'm gonna call myself done for now.
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Posted Tue 22 Jan, 2019 6:22 PM
so instead I'm gonna call myself done for now.
Hi Done, I'm Three of Seven.
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Posted Tue 22 Jan, 2019 6:38 PM
In a way Elder Scrolls Online has a similar-ish system called Champion Points where you get an additional point every couple hundred k xp to add to a system that for each point increases one stat by a little (sneaking, bit more magica regen, bit more defenses against something, etc.).
The more / longer you play, the more you have compared to people just starting out. However they have a catchup system in place, or two rather, one is where there's a max in place that you can have for a time being until it's raised again (though not sure if that is still in place, not played for a while), the other is, those who are behind the current max require less XP to gain a point, and the closer you get to the max, the xp requirement increases slowly. Something like this could or perhaps even should be implemented with a multi-year long timegated process here too I think, so that those who are only able to play say on weekends, or who have joined a year after the start of this system, have a fairer chance of gaining perk points and closing the gap.
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Posted Tue 22 Jan, 2019 6:45 PM
Anyone just joining the game would not have any of those, and would need to progress towards them. Which means those that have completed some, or all, will have an advantage over those who don't, the advantage they get is going to be in DPS, survivability, manoeuvrability, and so forth, which will give them an edge in DPS races and PvP matches.
This is what I think the issue is.
Sooooo … in my opinion … FROM MY POINT OF VIEW … this system is not a big deal. Unless you are in STO for the above reasons. And yet, if DPS for a any player is fun, then they are likely to be playing often enough where the timing of this systems almost becomes moot (except dealing with the common frustrations from lack of patience).
AND if Cryptic monetizes the system through additional means to shorten the time, then that is clearly "pay-to-win".
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Posted Tue 22 Jan, 2019 7:05 PM
AND if Cryptic monetizes the system through additional means to shorten the time, then that is clearly "pay-to-win".
That's actually a good point, however one can also argue if it's in the cstore it can be obtained w/o using RL money, but would also be an additional time gate to gather the zen. It will be tricky I guess.
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Posted Tue 22 Jan, 2019 7:35 PM
That's actually a good point, however one can also argue if it's in the cstore it can be obtained w/o using RL money, but would also be an additional time gate to gather the zen. It will be tricky I guess.
Sure and it's always been that way I think. Furthermore , and I think that's how Cryptic is essentially using the C-Store to their advantage.
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Posted Tue 22 Jan, 2019 7:51 PM
Deeps are nothing. Yes, I want to pew pew pew more effectively, but I am not losing sleep over it.
PvP has never been a thing. The Deepsters park in the queue and prey on PUGgers jumping in riding T5 carriers.
If you stick with PvE and DSEs and rTFOs, you will not 'be at a disadvantage' if you don't max the Perks (a naming system I abhor, by the way). I do not expect that I will complete the Perks in the minimum amount of time. Even if it takes 2 1/2 years instead of 2, I will not be disadvantaged for 6 months.
"And when I saw the breadth of my domain, I wept, for there were no more worlds left to conquer."