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Posted Wed 05 Feb, 2020 10:51 PM
Episode Discussion
"The End is the Beginning"
US Airdate: 06/02/2020 (CBS All Access)
International: 07/02/2020 (Amazon Prime)
This thread is for the pre and post discussion of the 3rd episode "The End is the Beginning" - this will be a spoiler filled discussion so if you've found your way past the warnings in the activity stream and the spoiler tag on the thread, this is your last chance to turn back, or at least it will be at the end of this first post. You have been warned!
The End of the Beginning is episode 3 of 10. (Borg puns not intended...)
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Posted Thu 06 Feb, 2020 7:19 AM
Well, I haven't watched it yet (it's published tomorrow) but I gotta say... I already love the title. It's so poetic 😊
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Posted Thu 06 Feb, 2020 8:28 AM
No spoilers, since it's so early, but I am finding it really hard to get into the story. There are jarring contemporary references that completely take me out of it. It's like the writers are thinking, hey...this is what the cool kids are doing these days, let's get one of the characters to do that! Just STUPID!!! Then Agent Smith showed up (from The Matrix movies)...why? I found it very difficult to follow the rest of the episode, following those jarring events.
This episode features the overly emotional hyper-dramatization, that ultimately gets swept under the metaphorical rug as the story progresses, that we're getting use to from this generation of Star Trek shows. I didn't like this episode, and I'm worried for the future of the series.
The minor TNG musical and effects references were cool, but obviously fan service.
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Post ID: 408946
#4
Posted Fri 07 Feb, 2020 1:31 AM
I liked this episode again but did have niggles with it my first was Raffi, well she was 2 of them actually to start 1st was the Vape I mean why do we need it in the show might be trivial but hey, second was Raffi again and her instance on referring to Picard as JL the man I could never see him letting anyone refer to him in such a manner especially when in service also with the 14-year flashback when she also made the reference when she was in Starfleet.
Was good to see Hugh but the lack of background on how he became to be on the borg reclamation cube was an annoyance
Also Larris and Zhaban I find it hard that they would just let Picard go alone unprotected after seemingly acting as he personal assistants and in this episode his bodyguards also.
Away from the show, it's great, I am watching it with my youngest lad (13) it is becoming our thing together and with him, it's quite hard to do that with his Autism and issues he has he tends to be cut off a lot or has his nose in youtube videos that annoy the hell outta you. He plays STO occasionally with me and has watched previous Trek but to watch something new with him is awesome I do find myself filling in plot holes for him when something links to the past like Hugh in tonight's show when he was like why is that borg not like all the other borg.
But anyway role on next week
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Posted Fri 07 Feb, 2020 10:46 AM
–
Last edited by Bridger; Fri 07 Feb, 2020 10:48 AM.
So in the 23rd Century we only met Romulans from the South and during the 24th Century we only meet Romulans from the North.
That the Romulans have only assimilated 25 Romulans is a nice joke, but when you don't know anything about Star Trek that is an easy mistake to make. The only think that sounds plausible is that the Romulans sacrificed themselves to get access to the Cube and infect it like Species 6339 (Octanti).
Oh, and most favourite part are the Pad as thick as books.
“He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes;
he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever” ~ Chinese Proverb
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Posted Fri 07 Feb, 2020 3:18 PM
I liked this episode again but did have niggles with it my first was Raffi, well she was 2 of them actually to start 1st was the Vape I mean why do we need it in the show might be trivial but hey, second was Raffi again and her instance on referring to Picard as JL the man I could never see him letting anyone refer to him in such a manner especially when in service also with the 14-year flashback when she also made the reference when she was in Starfleet.
JL is my new favorite name for Picard. *L* Picard doesn't take himself as seriously as the rest of us do, so JL is probably not a problem for him. The vape was funny, though. *LOL* I guess when you think about it, though, it makes sense as a way to ingest the "snakeroot" or whatever she said it was. She's living a pretty low tech life, it seems, with her trailer out there in the wilderness. It caught me off guard, but a vape for her is kind of perfect.
Was good to see Hugh but the lack of background on how he became to be on the borg reclamation cube was an annoyance
Totally agree! We have no idea what he did after TNG, and they should have given us a quick throwaway line like, "After I was released from the collective, I studied and dedicated my life to helping other xB's." I know it's hard to give us a full biography, but we needed something.
Also Larris and Zhaban I find it hard that they would just let Picard go alone unprotected after seemingly acting as he personal assistants and in this episode his bodyguards also.
I was confused. at this. Did a scene get edited for time? I thought it was agreed that Zhaban would go with him, and I thought I'd seen a trailer clip with him on the ship, or somewhere out with them. I just maybe assumed last night Zhaban beamed in later.
Away from the show, it's great, I am watching it with my youngest lad (13) it is becoming our thing together and with him, it's quite hard to do that with his Autism and issues he has he tends to be cut off a lot or has his nose in youtube videos that annoy the hell outta you. He plays STO occasionally with me and has watched previous Trek but to watch something new with him is awesome I do find myself filling in plot holes for him when something links to the past like Hugh in tonight's show when he was like why is that borg not like all the other borg.
But anyway role on next week
That's cool! My kids are a touch younger, and I don't want them watching with all the language, but they have watched some of the older shows me with and the movies. Man, isn't it so odd how kids consume entertainment now? My kids can sit up and watch YouTube like I used to watch cartoons on television. I think YouTube might be half of their television consumption.
This is maybe a bit shameful, but my kids turned out to be much bigger Star Wars fans. Probably because they've been going to the new movies as young kids. We all sit around and watch the Mandalorian as a family. But oh well, more Star Trek for me. Maybe I'll get it right one day and have grandbabies that I can force to watch Star Trek for longer periods then my own kids! *L* To each their own, though.
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Posted Fri 07 Feb, 2020 3:30 PM
Some great points - I agree with everything (especially the on to next week part!)
Also Larris and Zhaban I find it hard that they would just let Picard go alone unprotected after seemingly acting as he personal assistants and in this episode his bodyguards also.
But anyway role on next week
I got the feeling that maybe they were coming as backup after all, just not telling him. Or provide some other kind of protection he doesn't know about yet, because otherwise, yeah, it felt out of character. Especially after getting attacked.
Oh - clear fan service, but I still got shivers when he delivered the engage line (was perfect too - not too serious) and heard that warp out music...
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Posted Fri 07 Feb, 2020 4:14 PM
Interesting to hear that they've definitively stated that Oh is a Commodore, STO could do well to take note of that fact. Was it me or was the EMH's accent all over the place, first British then dodgy Irish. I loved Lariss and Zhaban laying the smackdown on the Romulan kill team, truly bad ass.
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
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Post ID: 409013
#9
Posted Fri 07 Feb, 2020 4:25 PM
Interesting to hear that they've definitively stated that Oh is a Commodore, STO could do well to take note of that fact. Was it me or was the EMH's accent all over the place, first British then dodgy Irish. I loved Lariss and Zhaban laying the smackdown on the Romulan kill team, truly bad ass.
I thought there were two holograms? The emergency medical hologram and the emergency nav hologram... Although I may have been hallucinating, Ill try and rewatch it asap.
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Posted Fri 07 Feb, 2020 8:25 PM
I thought there were two holograms? The emergency medical hologram and the emergency nav hologram... Although I may have been hallucinating, Ill try and rewatch it asap.
there were 2 seperate holograms. you are correct
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Post ID: 409083
#11
Posted Sat 08 Feb, 2020 9:44 AM
–
Last edited by Mack; Sat 08 Feb, 2020 9:49 AM.
No spoilers, since it's so early, but I am finding it really hard to get into the story.
It's okay to discuss spoilers here as soon as anyone has viewed it. It's why the thread title notifies clearly with [Spoiler] tag as a warning.
--
Eh, I'm not able to buy the story. That Starfleet has now become self interested over the greater good of galaxy. And that Romulans are able to so effectively espionage to key positions such as Head of Starfleet Intelligence by masquerading as Vulcans. Also couldn't understand how Hue ended up here and helping out Romulans.. idk. Rafi jealous of Picard's heritage...Then the pilot says he's expensive? What? I thought in TNG and again in the movies Picard has told in the future mankind doesn't work for materialistic stuff or money anymore......
I just like Picard for the post Nemesis requisition stuff they are showing. Such as the Starfleet Uniform they showed in this episode prior to supernova hitting Romulus with TNG Movie combadge. I wonder if this will become available on STO now. I very much prefer this over the 2399 one.
--
All in all after first episode the pace is gone, and we have just 7 episodes left I believe? Yeaa..
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Posted Sat 08 Feb, 2020 3:51 PM
I think it's important to remember that Starfleet is not the same as the Federation. They are the naval wing of that entity but they are still their own thing. So it's possible that their command structure simply didn't want to risk losing any more ships on a rescue mission after having their primary shipyard blown to pieces and lost a lot of their own people. I imagine Starfleet was left reeling by that attack even if the Federation at large kind of wasn't that badly effected (member planets already have their own naval forces and ships anyway (e.g. Vulcans, Andorians etc.).
What Starfleet does is not perhaps what the Federation would do, despite the few member states wanting to pull out if the rescue went ahead.
I suspect that the Commodore IS actually Vulcan but that if she is a member of this mysterious Zhat Vash group then that could mean she is working with Romulans. This group is thousands of years old so I suspect it predates the split of the Vulcans and Romulans; hence it probably contains members from both races working in secret beneath both governments.
So i think she is both a genuine member of Starfleet, but also secretly a member of this uber-deep cover ancient organisation. Other agents she is using are clearly Romulan though.
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Posted Sun 09 Feb, 2020 2:16 AM
Interesting to hear that they've definitively stated that Oh is a Commodore, STO could do well to take note of that fact. Was it me or was the EMH's accent all over the place, first British then dodgy Irish. I loved Lariss and Zhaban laying the smackdown on the Romulan kill team, truly bad ass.
As others have pointed out, there are two holograms, an Emergency Medical Hologram and an Emergency Navigational Hologram. I did not notice that at first, and neither did I notice that they are all played by Santiago Cabrera, who plays Rios.
Its funny you say the accent was all over the place because I looked up Santiago Cabrera after hearing his natural speaking voice, which sounded kind of British. Apparently the accents are all over the place because he's been all over the place. LOL! He is the son of Chileans, born in Venezuela, and raised in London, Romania, Toronto, and Madrid. One of his parents is a Chilean diplomat, and he says he's never been in a country for more than 4 years.
- - - Updated - - -
I suspect that the Commodore IS actually Vulcan but that if she is a member of this mysterious Zhat Vash group then that could mean she is working with Romulans. This group is thousands of years old so I suspect it predates the split of the Vulcans and Romulans; hence it probably contains members from both races working in secret beneath both governments.
So i think she is both a genuine member of Starfleet, but also secretly a member of this uber-deep cover ancient organisation. Other agents she is using are clearly Romulan though.
Very good point!
Actually, now that I think about it, I wonder if this group was involved in Unification, because you know, it always seemed bonkers that the Romulans and Vulcans would consider rejoining somehow. Sure, they said it was a Romulan invasion plot later, but why would Vulcans entertain the notion.
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Posted Sun 09 Feb, 2020 8:11 PM
–
Last edited by Shadowmeph; Sun 09 Feb, 2020 8:20 PM.
I wasn't going to watch this ep I held off because the last ep I fell asleep bu I actually watched the ep its about time that things are starting to take flight
so far I like Rafi she was I guess Vaping that flower I wonder if she was getting high lol
also my predictions I think might be changing as to what is actually going on so this is a good thing keeps my intelligence working my otgher possible therory one of threee I am having now is that maybe the Romulan secret secret police ( or what ever they call them selves) might have been playing with the Borg tech and very possibly lost control, of it which is why what happened happened .
then a funny thing happened a though wouldn't it be great if all this was Picard having an hallucination from some type of disease like Alzheimer's or maybe his retirement from Star Fleet he is actually writing a book and none of this is actually happening ,of course that is not whats going one but It would be a huge twist
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Posted Sun 09 Feb, 2020 9:27 PM
I just hope they start to really progress the plot in the next episode. Felt like there really wasn't a lot of movement in this one. Would be interesting if Cryptic adopted the uniforms from the show as the default... which reminds me is STO still prime universe now, or an alternate timeline? There are already some diversions between whats happened in STO and the show. Mars for example.