[Morris]

Ahh the "run-of-the-mill statement"... I wondered when it would show up...

Ofc they can't force us to buy sh*t from them (and I bet my a** they hate it!). But with stuff the fake discounts, "advertisements" like "only a limited time" and so on they try to soften us up to fall for the scheme. I played World of Warships a long time, they do the exact same strategy but there the playerbase is even so dumb to pay up to 130-140€ for only one ship! Or the lootbox simulator games Electronic Arts trys to sell us these days...

No matter it it's the games industry, Hollywood or Netflix/HBO/SyFy, big tech (Apple ect...):
Don't think, just consume and be happy, be grateful and look forward to consume the next product.

I take your point, and I understand why this is upsetting to you. I am forced to disagree with you though. Firstly, Cryptic is a business. It is their job to provide content, and to find a way to make money doing that. They have obviously been experimenting with different monetization strategies for a while now, since loot boxes have come under scrutiny in recent years. I'm quite certain that Cryptic is using it's most profitable games to finance new games, like Magic: Legends. They are a business. They are using some of their profits to grow. There is nothing wrong with that. Secondly, The items in this pack are available in game through alternative means. Acquire them in the manner that best suits you, or not at all...it's your choice. Thirdly, if you are one of the many players that carries a large number of alts, and play them in a fairly regular way, gaining account wide access to these ships is a bargain! Finally, I think that some may be missing the point of playing games. They are a form of recreation...a form of escape from reality, if only for a short time each week. STO is free to play. There has to be some way for Cryptic to make money, and monetizing things that the players want is the best way to do that, to many people's chagrin! Of course Cryptic, and others that you name, want us to consume and be happy. As the consumer, it's our responsibility to consume whatever is reasonable to us, or don't consume at all, and be happy with the choice that we've made within the context of the medium that we're consuming. If there is something that you want, save the resources needed, whether in game or out, to acquire what it is that you desire. It may take time, but everything is available, in some way or another, eventually.

As for me, I don't play a large number of alts, and the characters that I do play already have, or have no need for these ships. If I foresaw myself expanding my character roster, I might consider this pack, but I do not, so I won't be getting this pack. For the reasons stated above, I do believe that this is an excellent value for certain players, and since there are other means of acquiring what is in the pack, I can't say that I understand the vitriol shown towards it, and Cryptic for offering it.

I do apologise if this comes across as condescending to anyone reading this. It is not meant to be. I am a business owner myself. As much as I would love to provide the services that I do, at no charge, loving my job doesn't pay my bills. I have to monetize my services in order to make a living. Before I go any further, and invite too much from your imaginations, I'm a private sector meteorologist. I must charge my clients, based on a combination of factors, such as how important a specific forecast is to my client's own business, how much time and effort is required of me in making the forecast, and lastly, but most importantly, how much will my client pay if they go to my competitors. If I'm charging more, I better be able to show my clients why my price is worth it to them! If I cannot convince them of the value, then I need to lower my price to make it a value to them, or let them go to the competition.

I'm not sympathetic to Cryptic, but I understand Cryptic, and I won't hold their NEED to make a profit against them. If their monetization effort does not meet projections, expect to see another effort from them in the not so distant future. If it does meet or exceed projections, expect more of this kind of thing. I suspect that we already have our answer, given how similar this pack is to the Legendary pack a few months ago!

My final sentiment on this subject...have fun!!! Our enjoyment isn't based on what Cryptic gives us...it comes from us being happy and grateful for what we have, who we encounter, both in the games that we play, and more importantly in life, and for whatever amount of time that we have in this life! Dwelling on what causes us grief, isn't good for our happiness, our relationships, or our health! If you're not happy with something that Cryptic offers, don't buy it. Harping on how it costs too much, or how greedy Cryptic is, is an unproductive exercise in the very least, and can potentially ruin yours and others enjoyment of the game. Negativity is contagious. Choose not to spread it. I'm guilty of it myself sometimes, especially regarding my opinions of Discovery and Picard, as some of you may know, lol! I'm trying to do better, but the writers of those shows don't make it easy for me! Different subject for a different time....end rant!

Cheers to those who made it to the end!!!

[Mack]

As a Regional Product Manager, I need to price the products keeping in mind the manufacturing + shipping + brand value + servicing cost + local willingness to spend (all for which I have in-house surveys and stats)

However, the instant I overprice something that's beyond my brand's value and current offerings - I can expect that my customers and end-customers will look at other prospectives, especially direct competitors. You know how STO could've gotten away with this? If they had actually released more content. When there's no new content coming out for months and the only thing you have to announce is an "year long Klingon development" post - it doesn't inspire people to sink money again and again.

You want to reach the right price, you don't put it up over night without any work to show. I'll just take the example of Apple since you mentioned that above, as much as people hate Apple for bringing the status quo of smartphones to $1000, they innovated and delivered performance each time to be able to do that. You wouldn't necessary buy a $1000 from Nokia today, would you? (Unless they also demonstrated an equal level of work and R&D on their product of course)

STO has not been developing content. That's why it feels strange for end-user to invest the considerable amounts to end up flying it over to same... Infected Space Advanced. It's like you said Morriss, you need to be able to show that you are worth charging this lump-sum at once for this service, and the player base is divided on this notion. Some people now see STO as a Star Trek Universe Simulator with ability to fly some models and some missions, where as some also still see it as a MMO game which is severly falling behind on development schedules and having other projects is no excuse for this.

Not really going to debate over Bridger's logic as well, because if by buying and selling keys is how you earn EC to buy promo ships - this is a bargain. But, if you going to do just for this deal - there definitely is some hesistancy. What the Legendary Pack and this pack share are to have the STO players part with a lump of money at once, no other short options. They're basically testing the spending capacity of players even in this situation.

Anyways, I can afford this but I choose to save my money for better games coming in the 3rd Quarter!
If STO wants me to pay such lump sum - I need content from them (and that's just my requirement).

[Sunfire]

I'll pass on this one.

I had zero problems forking over the cash for the Legendary bundle, but for this, no. The price is actually not too bad considering you get ships that were hard to get/expensive before, you get "normal" ships for 3000 Zen, these are 5000. Not too bad and they are account-wide. Still, it's exactly the wrong time to advertise a bundle like that, especially with how many people lost their jobs during the current events.

[Morris]

STO has not been developing content. That's why it feels strange for end-user to invest the considerable amounts to end up flying it over to same... Infected Space Advanced. It's like you said Morriss, you need to be able to show that you are worth charging this lump-sum at once for this service, and the player base is divided on this notion. Some people now see STO as a Star Trek Universe Simulator with ability to fly some models and some missions, where as some also still see it as a MMO game which is severly falling behind on development schedules and having other projects is no excuse for this.

I'll make this post brief, as my last was quite lengthy. I have no problem with most of what you said in your post, Mack. It is not Cryptic's job to satisfy everyone...just as many as they can while meeting their numbers. If they aren't performing to your satisfaction, you are right to not purchase their virtual wears. If the game is stale to you, then you would be equally justified in playing less, or not at all. These actions contribute to their decision making processes. When they realize that they need to make a change, hopefully they will! That being said, like I mentioned in my post, Cryptic is currently in development of Magic: Legends...a game which I currently have very little interest in, but I am interested in seeing how it turns out! If I remember correctly, resources were diverted from STO, when Neverwinter was in development. That is another game that I have very little interest in, but newer code from Neverwinter eventually made its way into STO...I believe to our benefit. So, just because another game may be benefiting from our money spent in STO right now, it doesn't mean that STO won't benefit from it in the future. I'm very optimistic that the newer code from Magic will find its way into STO over the coming years, hopefully meaningfully new content with it!

[WelshAvenger]

I played World of Warships a long time, they do the exact same strategy but there the playerbase is even so dumb to pay up to 130-140€ for only one ship!

If you think WoWS players are dumb for dropping that much on a ship, I'd hate to hear what you think of Star Citizen players dropping up to $2500 for a Javelin destroyer (at least according to the Wiki) https://starcitizen.fandom.com/wiki/Javelin

[Sul-Matuul]

If you think WoWS players are dumb for dropping that much on a ship, I'd hate to hear what you think of Star Citizen players dropping up to $2500 for a Javelin destroyer (at least according to the Wiki) https://starcitizen.fandom.com/wiki/Javelin

Well there's being dumb with your money.......and then there's Star Citizen players.......

[Account003]

Look Morris... I might be just "naïve" or stuck in my "90s gamer mentality" and I also don't denie the fact that a company has to make money to survive (DUH!) - but you said something that sounds so totally wrong and is probably the crux of all this (and not only in the games industry)...

Cryptic is a company in the entertainment business, so they only have one job. They even have in case of Star Trek Online 2 monopolies: First as the only Star Trek MMO and second as the only "active" Star Trek Game in general. And while I destest to quote Steve Jobs (he's one if not the biggest a**holes I've ever known), in an interview in 1995 he said:



What he said back then makes absolute sense and is 1000% what happens today across the whole entertainment industy.
F2P isn't for the customer (which should be the highest goal of any company, no matter the industy), it's only for the company. It artificially boosts playernumbers (to get more money from investors) and the mircotransactions are a more efficient way to milk the customer. Which is also why almost everyone in MMOs got rid of the subscriptions. Imagine just for a moment you could get all the stuff from the Zen Store and Lobi Consortium for only 12.99€ a month...

And yeah, I know all the math and sh*t behind making a subscription model work but think of it this way: If you can't make it work, maybe, just maybe your product isn't worth it? But beating a dead horse is another sickness coperations have these days...

I know, we'll never be on the same page when it comes to this... I just want to add that I, because of my colorful past, have intimate knowledge of both sides and I know both sides won't work and that mankind is to lazy to invent a better system.
Also: Even in my native tongue I lack the vocabulary to really get across what I have on my mind.

[Three of Seven]

Maybe they will raise enough money to remake the Foundry, and bring it back!

Nah.

[Morris]

I know, we'll never be on the same page when it comes to this... I just want to add that I, because of my colorful past, have intimate knowledge of both sides and I know both sides won't work and that mankind is to lazy to invent a better system.
Also: Even in my native tongue I lack the vocabulary to really get across what I have on my mind.

For the most part, you're probably correct, but I do respect that you took the time and effort to make all of your points.

Since you mentioned it...do you have an idea for a better system? I'm not trying to pick an argument, or prolong this debate. I'm genuinely curious about what you would consider a better system...at least a general idea anyway. If you'd rather not, I understand. I always want to understand all sides of an argument, even when I'm biased to one side over the others. I'm opinionated, but I am open to new ideas when I understand their merits!

Cheers!!!

[Account003]

For the most part, you're probably correct, but I do respect that you took the time and effort to make all of your points.

Since you mentioned it...do you have an idea for a better system? I'm not trying to pick an argument, or prolong this debate. I'm genuinely curious about what you would consider a better system...at least a general idea anyway. If you'd rather not, I understand. I always want to understand all sides of an argument, even when I'm biased to one side over the others. I'm opinionated, but I am open to new ideas when I understand their merits!

Cheers!!!

Being from germany, I tend to be cautious of people who "see a problem" and also in an instant present the "solution".
But jokes aside... At the moment not really and I brooding over this (not always luckily) for some years now.

All I know, for now at least, is that when you don't keep capitalism in check it transforms itself into coperatism (what we have these days and it may end as worse as you see it in Cyberpunk media). But the only way to keep it in check is via government and that is, as you know, its very own can of worms - no matter which "way" it swings.


All I do know, for myself at least, is: While humans need some form of government to enforce the "basic rules of living in a comunity" (we even manage to fail at that...) that should be the only thing for said government. But it's hard, if not impossible, to find a balance that noone has too much power over others.
The only thing that comes even close to what my mind imagines, is Feudalism. Also, to clarify: I mean the feudal system of splitting power, not servedom or any the like.

But yeah, that's just the rambling of an insane person.

[Morris]

All I know, for now at least, is that when you don't keep capitalism in check it transforms itself into coperatism (what we have these days and it may end as worse as you see it in Cyberpunk media). But the only way to keep it in check is via government and that is, as you know, its very own can of worms - no matter which "way" it swings.


All I do know, for myself at least, is: While humans need some form of government to enforce the "basic rules of living in a comunity" (we even manage to fail at that...) that should be the only thing for said government. But it's hard, if not impossible, to find a balance that noone has too much power over others.
The only thing that comes even close to what my mind imagines, is Feudalism. Also, to clarify: I mean the feudal system of splitting power, not servedom or any the like.

But yeah, that's just the rambling of an insane person.

Well said. I have some thoughts on this, but I don't want to derail this thread any more than we already have! So, to wrap things up, I'll just say this...I believe that you're on the right track, though maybe headed in the wrong direction. Ideally, the customer is the check on the business, the citizen is the check on the government, and the customer/citizen is informed enough, and responsible enough, to enforce said checks on those in power.

I'm fighting the urge to type a 5000 word essay, so I'll just end this now!

[Account003]

Ideally, the customer is the check on the business

Yeah, this is our generations way of thinking. But big business just has to outlast us (and they probably will), all following generations are already groomed to:

Don't think, just consume and be happy, be grateful and look forward to consume the next product.

[ForTheGamer]

Won't be getting this pack. I tapped out with the Legendary pack. It would need to be something really special to get me to buy something new again. This isn't it.

[darthnovawave]

My thoughts are not so much against these high priced bundles existing. Cryptic is a business and like all businesses they need cash flow to keep being a business. My concern is the general pivot to big bundles exclusively. I ignored the legendary bundle not because I had no interest at all in the ships, but rather that I had no interest in making a large investment when I knew I would realistically not get much use out of most of the ships since I usually don't switch ships very often. If I had the option to buy individually, I may have considered it, even if buying a la carte was slightly more expensive per ship than buying all at once. Cryptic hasn't released anything a la carte at all in months outside of Mudd's store, but even on sale the items are priced at a significant premium over past, comparable content. I enjoy Star Trek, but I am also a husband and father to young kids, so it is hard for me to justify investing heavily in STO on these pricey bundles over spending on other things that have broader utility to my whole family. Foregoing the cost of a trip through the drive thru one night with the family to buy a ship is far easier to accept than foregoing the cost of a week of groceries for a bundle of ships.

[Sul-Matuul]

My thoughts are not so much against these high priced bundles existing. Cryptic is a business and like all businesses they need cash flow to keep being a business. My concern is the general pivot to big bundles exclusively. I ignored the legendary bundle not because I had no interest at all in the ships, but rather that I had no interest in making a large investment when I knew I would realistically not get much use out of most of the ships since I usually don't switch ships very often. If I had the option to buy individually, I may have considered it, even if buying a la carte was slightly more expensive per ship than buying all at once. Cryptic hasn't released anything a la carte at all in months outside of Mudd's store, but even on sale the items are priced at a significant premium over past, comparable content. I enjoy Star Trek, but I am also a husband and father to young kids, so it is hard for me to justify investing heavily in STO on these pricey bundles over spending on other things that have broader utility to my whole family. Foregoing the cost of a trip through the drive thru one night with the family to buy a ship is far easier to accept than foregoing the cost of a week of groceries for a bundle of ships.

Absolutely agree.

I have a home and family to support and i’d happily support the game with occasional spending where I can. But recently I’m just priced out because everything is either promo boxes or insanely priced bundles or multipacks.
I could probably justify £30 maybe a few times a year if I saved up the cash for it as an entertainment expenditure. But no way in hell cant I afford a single purchase that’s over £100 for a selection of pixels; that’sa whole week of food for the family and more.

I’m happy if others can enjoy these bundles and feel they can afford and justify the cost themselves; I just feel the game is leaving players like me behind.