[Ninja]

UFP'ers,

Did any of you play "Magic the Gathering", "Star Wars CCG" or "Star Trek CCG"? I really enjoyed playing these growing up. I loved the gameplay mechanics of MTG like "tapping for mana" and the character battles. Star Wars had great space and ship battles, and Star Trek...well Star Trek was Star Trek, i enjoyed collecting the cards themselves.

The problem i often had with Star Trek CCG was that the gameplay was often boring, overly complex, and confusing. I always felt that Star Trek CCG never quite measured up to Magic and Star Wars.

What i want to do is see if any UFP CCG gamers would like to get together for a project. The project is to take the positive things from the various card games and re-make Star Trek CCG in our image. Mainly, create our own gaming rules, gameplay, and cards. We could of course take the same designs of the existing Star Trek CCG as well as use any art assets, but we would need to change certain gameplay icons, etc to fit ours.

Specific Roles:

• At least one or two designers to help make and edit cards.
• A Gamemaster that is familiar with these CCG maybe even the D&D rule book very well and can help advise on specific rules.
• Developer/coder to help with some minor technical stuff.
• Anyone else that loves these games and wants to help.

Ideally, i want to create an online space where we can upload our card decks and play against each other somehow. I also would like to create a mechanism whereby players can "buy" decks or "earn" them by participating in member events or through other ways. (UFP executive leadership advice on this would be great)

Please sound off if you would like to be part of this project. It will require time and effort so please only sign on if you can contribute actively to this.
=^=

[Chris Wilkinson]

I think one of the major questions/issues here would be,

1) Would you sell these "cards" for money?
and if so
2) Do you have a licence from the relevant people?

[Josh Broughm]

Imagination is there, but it takes a bucketload of resources to make or even retool a existing CCG. I just don't know bout this.

[Sharpkiller]

Thread moved.

I've moved this thread to to the Proposals forum since part of the proposal is to tie it in with the {UFP}.

[Neo]

this is something adzy might wanna see

[Dr. Adzy]

And thus I have.
First off you are grossly underestimating the amount of work that goes into creating a game like this. It's a nice idea but to put this into production, provided of course you wanted the game ready for release in a year or so, you would need at least:
4 Illustrators
10 Coders and a working game engine
3 designers to create and test the core mechanics
one of each of these would also need to be a project lead so that the whole thing moves along at the same pace.
Also all of these people would need to be paid for the amount of work you want them to do. Asking people to do this as a favour to the clan is simply not acceptable as this represents a substantial investment of their time and energy.

Secondly, copyrighting is a serious issue when you are talking about using art assets or cards from the currently existing card game and putting them out for public availibility. Not only that but if you are planning to make a profit from this (buying cards, etc) or use likenesses of specific actors you need to get written permission from the copyright holders of Star Trek or the actors in question.

Lastly, by the sounds of it (and feel free to correct me on this) you don't have any personal knowledge or skill to put forward to the creation of this game, you just have an "idea" of what it should be. Ideas are dime a dozen, everybody has ideas, if you are really serious about making this game you need to have real experience in how these games are made and have the necessary skillset to lead the production personally. No matter how many of these games you have played before, if you have not made one before then you shouldn't start with a project like this.

If you are totally sure without a doubt that you can meet those requirements and personally write a 4000 word production plan detailing exactly how this game will be made, where the copyrights are situated and how the whole production will be fiscally managed, I will be happy to work as the lead mechanic designer (and I am 100% serious about that).

Otherwise you need to take a walk around the block until you have the means, experience and skillset necessary to undertake this project.

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm pounding you into the dirt here as I can see you definitely have a lot of enthusiasm and passion for these games and the idea itself is a pretty good one, the Star Trek CCG could definitely be improved upon and the first step to doing something like this is usually an outreach to an invested community. This idea is not entirely unfeasible but you have to understand that it is going to represent a huge commitment from you personally.

[nickp85]

I'm hesitant to comment here because I don't know what Star Trek CCG was but also because Dr. Adzy made it sound completely impossible haha

In any case...anything can be done given to the right amount of manpower and desire to do so.

The question is, what department would even be taking this on and do we have the manpower to do it. Considering Adzy's comments, I'm leaning toward no.

[Chris Wilkinson]

In any case...anything can be done given to the right amount of manpower and desire to do so.

I disagree with your comment Nick,

I could gather a team of 5000 people who want to make a game. However, There is no guarentee that any of those people have the skills required.

Manpower is never an issue, neither is desires. A team of 1 with the correct skills, would always be more effective than my team of 5000. It is all about skills and the ability to manage them in my personal opinion (With Projects such as these).

[Ninja]

Ok to answer some of the critics:

1. I certainly have the knowledge, ability, and skill set to contribute to this project. I am a professional working adult, i'm not suggesting to do something because i have an abstract fantasy and itchy typing fingers. Have i ever created a stand alone CCG? No. If i had, i'd probably be working at Wizards of the Coast or something already. You don't need to have professional experience to create something that has the polish of a professional product. All you need is skill, time and motivation to see it through. "Cencoroll" was an amazing animation created by largely one person: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXHX6w0IlBM
2. Having worked in gaming companies in the past i understand development cycles.
3. This is not be a "for profit" project, it would be personal use only in the same way "fanfics" and fansites (like UFP) are created.
4. I am not creating a compiled game, therefor no OOP type coders, or game engine is necessary.
5. There is no need to create our own assets so no illustrators would be needed.
6. If we create UFP specific cards such as using our own ideas for ships than 3D artist would be needed, i know we have a few here.
7. No one will get paid. This is a fan project, the amount of time you put in something doesn't justify getting paid. Otherwise i should certainly get paid for jacking off considering the amount of time i've put in my life. Case and point.
8. The most production skillset needed would be graphic designers. People that know how to use Illustrator and Photoshop.

Lastly, this post is to gauge interest and identify stakeholders. Do i have all the details written out specifically line by line, with each minute of the production plotted? No. The first step is to see if there is adequate people with the skills, time and desire to participate in this project among UFP members. If there is, the next step is to set up a series of meeting to outline and discuss feasibility and best practices. It would be great if this topic didn't degrade into various side debates about philosophy, or semantic discussions about definitions.

Cheers.

[Christopher Halsey]

Never actually played the Star Trek CCG although I am familiar with it.

I see where Adzy is coming from in that this sort of project would be quite an undertaking but I definately believe that with time and effort it could be pulled off. How much time and effort seems to be a main point of concern here but one that I do not feel as qualified to discuss as those that already have so I shall avoid that aspect all together.

I do think Ninja has the right approach to this, does he have a a complete plan all laid out? No. What he has is an idea and is keen to see if anyone else is interested so that then if there is sufficient interest we can look at this in greater detail. There is certainly nothing wrong with seeing if people would be interested in something before further developing an idea.

I'm not entirely sure whether this should have been moved to the fleet proposals section or not, at first I thought it definately should but now when looking back Ninja hasn't proposed us re-making the Star Trek CCG yet, it is an idea he has had and he is looking to see if people are interested. After that if they are then it becomes a matter of developing the idea and building a proposal. At this stage this isn't something that we have to say yes or no to, it is just gauging interest so lets not look at this as a proposal, lets look at it for what it is, Ninja having an idea and seeing if people are interested in working on and developing that idea.

If there is the interest here and enough people with the relevant skills as well as the time and motivation to contribute can be rounded up then I think this sounds like a promising idea however as Ninja has himself pointed out at this stage he is just looking to identify if sufficient interest exists, I fear there may not be but only time will tell so lets see how it goes.

[Dr. Adzy]

Before I begin don't get passive aggressive with me. I'm not being a critic and trying to put you down, I'm giving you the facts. That is what I do when people make a proposal as its a healthy way to balance out the plan and identify key weaknesses before they become a problem further down the line.

Since you've conveniently numbered your points for easy dissection I'll number mine as well.

1. Being able to make games does not mean being able to compile a CCG, games like these need to be approached from an entirely different design direction than video games. Whilst I agree that you do not have to be a professional to produce something with professional finish, you do still have to know what you're talking about. Profession and Experience are two different things, don't confuse them for being a semantic. I never stated you had to be a member of the WotC design team or even that you had pursued a career in the card games industry, I said you had to have had experience in making games like this before.
2. Good I'm glad. I'd still go do some reading though as working insde the cycle and managing it are two different things.
3. Again good, but you still need contingencies in place, in this day and age people get very touchy about the use of their intellectual property.
4. Then how do you intend to build the game to be played online? Please expand on this point.
5. OK, but see point three, using other people's paid-for assets in your public domain card game may not be illegal but it is frowned upon.
6. I have nothing more to add.
7. I'll be honest, this one irritated me. You are asking for more than just someone's time here, you are asking for expertise, commitment and professionalism as well. All of which are something you at least offer payment or some form of non-monetary compensation for. Also in the future, please refrain from drawing such a vulgar example, all it succeeds in doing is making you look immature.
8. So you DO need illustrators? If the point needs clarifying then I was recommending a team of four traditional/digital 2D artists.

And now we're done there, I'd like to point out that this was put in the proposal section, therefore I treated it as if it were a proposal. I'll ask you to keep a handle on your temper, I understand that nobody likes having their ideas dissected and having flaws highlighted, but the way you handle this 'criticism' as you put it is the difference between being percieved as a capable professional and a petulant amateur.

Since you've made it clear this is just an appeal for interest/help then I'm going to suggest this gets moved back to where it came from. If you did not plan on how to correctly and professionally deal with responses like mine, however, I would severely advise you not take it any further until you have.

[Mikester92]

This topic is becoming slightly too hostile for my taste, could we tone it down a bit please?

Sharp's reasoning for moving this to the proposal's forum was well within norms. However, seeing as though many people think it should be moved elsewhere, I would like to know whether you, Ninja, want this to be treated as a formal proposal, or whether you want it to be treated as a more casual discussion.

[Sharpkiller]

Thread moved - again.

I don't think there's any real need to criticize Ninja's idea to such a degree. I think he's just looking for people to help out with his idea. Let's keep it civil guys.

[Dr. Adzy]

I'm withdrawing from this thread, I've said all I need to.
If it's not an official proposal then there's no need for me to get involved.
*goes back to standby*

[Christopher Halsey]

Thread locked at the request of the original poster.

If anyone is interested in discussing this idea please PM Ninja or catch him on TS.