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Post ID: 305415
#31
Posted Tue 12 Jul, 2016 3:08 AM
I think it's safe to say that Sulu was presumed heterosexual in the prime universe, otherwise why the need to come out and advertise it? Other than the note of his daughter, there's also the mirror universe where Sulu hits on Uhura. (I know, I know, it's another "universe".)
I don't have any problem with Sulu being gay, and although I hold the same views as Caymen Greener on the subject, my gripe--much along the same lines as Takei's issue with this announcement (I think)--is that they're changing a character just because they can. Because it somehow will bring in that kind of audience. I'm sorry, but you should be able to bring in your audience based on how well you write a story, not which or how many characters you change to be a certain way whether that's color, race, sexuality, etc. I hate seeing shows and characters I grew up with suddenly being transformed into something else just because someone "can." Why not just write the story a new way or better?
Why is Star Trek so loved? Because Gene had a vision and he wrote it well. I'll admit, Gene did something what may have been considered wild back then with so many characters with different ethnical backgrounds on the same screen all playing lead roles working together as a common people regardless of race or point of view (something we could still learn from today). I can even see how this change is an extension of that belief that Gene had, but Gene didn't have to change characters just to progress their story or to show how a diverse culture can come together and work together. He could create characters and make them interesting, unique, and each have their own importance to the story and how no matter their background the world/galaxy can be a better place because of them.
"Let us redefine progress to mean that just because we can do a thing, it does not necessarily mean we must do that thing."
(Might be taken out of context, but it's a Star Trek quote.)
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Posted Tue 12 Jul, 2016 7:33 AM
People once assumed the Earth was flat. Just because some people assume something to be true does not necessarily mean it must be true.
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Posted Tue 12 Jul, 2016 1:03 PM
"Target Sulu" You make it sound like he's a victim
Firstly it would likely make more sense for Sulu as out of all of the Original Series characters he is the only one that you don't really see in any kind of relationship or major flirtation with another character (I think the closest you ever see to that is in the Mirror Universe), in addition to that there is the fact that the person who played Sulu ended up marrying a male, hence the nod to Takei. Takei and his husband were the first males to be married in California and Sulu is the first male Star Trek character to be married to another male. That's not to say it would have to be Sulu but Sulu is likely the choice that makes more sense out of those available. Regardless I very much doubt if they had another main character married to a same sex partner there would be more acceptance from those hostile to this decision, I'm pretty sure the internet would break if Kirk ended up marrying a male.
Secondly it is not a change in his sexual orientation if his sexual orientation has never been stated, you can't change something which hasn't been determined. Sulu was apparently envisioned as being heterosexual but his sexual orientation has never been stated or even implied in canon, it is a blank that has now been filled in. It's almost like Kirk having a son, it was never stated he had a son until David Marcus turned up, that didn't mean they changed Kirk to be a dad, it was never stated before whether he was or wasn't and a later writer filled in that blank.
Still remains, why must it be sulu? It's obviously a choice they have due to the actor that played him in the past or this wouldnt even been brought up....
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Posted Tue 12 Jul, 2016 1:50 PM
The reasoning as to why Sulu was likely chosen as well as the reason Pegg provided has been explained so I don't think that does still remain, regardless of whether or not people like the reasoning the reasoning is there. But if "Why Sulu?" is an argument then that argument could be applied to literally any character in Star Trek.
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Posted Tue 12 Jul, 2016 2:21 PM
The reasoning as to why Sulu was likely chosen as well as the reason Pegg provided has been explained so I don't think that does still remain, regardless of whether or not people like the reasoning the reasoning is there. But if "Why Sulu?" is an argument then that argument could be applied to literally any character in Star Trek.
That's exactly what I was getting at. Gene was famous for fighting the norm. I think the first mix culture kiss was from Star Trek. He challenged the very principles of his time, which he could of involved homosexual easily in how he presented Star Trek at that time or to even TNG. I find it hard to believe that it isnt something he thought about but he chose not to do it for whatever reason.
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Posted Tue 12 Jul, 2016 2:27 PM
I think there are two debates going on here: should they have retcon'ed it; and now that they did, was their reason a good one? And I don't think you're going to sway anyone from their opinions at this point. I see a lot of circular motion in this thread at this point, which is why I've not responded since yesterday or whatever.
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Post ID: 305705
#37
Posted Thu 14 Jul, 2016 7:41 PM
I agree with Caymen that I don't think anyone will change their opinion on this if they haven't already although if anyone wants to insist on calling this a change (which it isn't unless someone can support their opinion with facts that show Sulu could never marry a male) I will be more than willing to continue to debate them.
Anyway, moving on, the BBC published an article yesterday which I found an enjoyable read, in it both Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto have come out in support of Sulu's character being married to a male although that isn't a massive surprise since they are in the film, I hadn't previously seen that Gene Roddenberry's son Eugene 'Rod' Roddenberry has now weighed in on the matter stating his belief that his father would he been "100% in favour".
You can read the BBC article which also contains a video featuring Simon Pegg discussing this HERE.
"IMPOSSIBLE IS A WORD TO BE FOUND ONLY IN THE DICTIONARY OF FOOLS."