[Three of Seven]

This thread may contain spoilers regarding the Vanguard series of novels.

David Mack, author of a number of Star Trek books, responded to an email from a reader regarding the lesbian love interest in Harbinger, part of the Vanguard series. Just to summaries before I link to David Macks blog post responding to this email, the reader was offended when they got to the part involving the love interest and stopped reading, telling the author that they will no longer be buying anymore of their books.

The reader in the email states "...but the truth is homosexually is not universally accepted...", I hesitate to refer to the reader as a Star Trek fan because of this comment, the series is known for its depiction of issues that are not universally accepted by society at a given time and the TV show itself has shown these, there is no reason books shouldn't continue the tradition.

Note that the author does swear in his response, just so you are forewarned, here is the link: http://infinitydog.livejournal.com/393064.html

What is your opinion of the matter, are there any issues that shouldn't be discussed in novels? And do you feel the authors response is appropriate?

[Kerry Malone]

I do believe he's right to defend his views.

In the 24th century, the Federation has supposedly evolved to a point beyond simple prejudices. We even have a lesbian kiss on Deep Space Nine between Dax and her previous host's wife. I would like to believe that homophobia is a thing of the *distant* past in our fictional universe, where money, greed, colour, race, even species, is a non-determining factor.

They're arguing about the sentience of holographic doctors and android Lieutenant Commanders in our universe... I think that goes far beyond whether two females can be romantically involved.

[merTYol]

David Mack is one of my favorite Trek writers to date. Thanks to his Destiny Series which i enjoy alot.

I am happy that he took this approach as his response. using IDIC as the main point of his arguement was also great.

I think this should be the general stance for all Trek writers. Trek universe is far beyond mere prejudices like this.

[NeoTrident]

Its unfortunate that the reader didn't continue with the novels after that book, the fact that they were lesbian was largely irrelevant, the story arc that followed from that relationship was extremely profound and involved profound emotion and tragic raw loss. It is one of David Mack's finest literary works, the reader did himself a major disservice for not continuing.

[Jon Thomas]

Well, if i were to criticize David Mack, It's wouldn't be for that, I'm still upset at him for blowing up half the alpha quadrant in the destiny trilogy. But back on topic. I fully agree with him. From it's beginnings Star Trek has always portrayed a very progressive point of view, all the way back to Kirk and Uhura kissing, something that was Taboo back in the 60's. Watch 40 years from now no one will bat an eye at this type of thing, at least that's my optimist hope.

[Solace]

Indeed I have to say that David Mack is one of my favorite Star Trek Authors and I am currently reading "Reap The Whirlwind". To echo what Kerry said above that the issues that plague the world today, homophobia and race prejudice to name a few would be a thing of the past.

But while it is true that Homosexuality is not universally accepted by everyone does mean that a fictional universe should reject those issues and ideals too. I think its good when a novel openly embraces Homosexuality to create interesting romance sub-plots and character development, like Kerry said Deep Space Nine depicted the lesbian kiss between Dax and her former hosts wife.

When I read the book Harbinger the deception of the lesbian love interest was not graphic in any way nor did it give out sordid details, frankly it baffles me as to why someone can get hung up on the idea of a lesbian love interest in a novel.

[Silynn]

I find it... interesting that some people have such passion (and the "need") to impose their opinions onto others. I say, "good for David Mack".

I've read the Vanguard series and the sub-plot between these two lovers were among my more favorite ones. As many have stated, Mr. Mack did an incredible job. These two character had such depth that they were so vivid... more so, you could easily identify or empathize with them, and their dilemma.

At least, from what I have read... this person who is complaining didn't bring up any negativity about the relationship being cross-species. Then again, it was Vulcan and Klingon... so why the big deal?

[Solace]

I find it... interesting that some people have such passion (and the "need") to impose their opinions onto others. I say, "good for David Mack".

I've read the Vanguard series and the sub-plot between these two lovers were among my more favorite ones. As many have stated, Mr. Mack did an incredible job. These two character had such depth that they were so vivid... more so, you could easily identify or empathize with them, and their dilemma.

At least, from what I have read... this person who is complaining didn't bring up any negativity about the relationship being cross-species. Then again, it was Vulcan and Klingon... so why the big deal?

Like you said Silynn, "The need to impose their opinions onto others". It's a sad reality that we currently live in. The "older" generation that were brought up to believe Homosexuality is wrong generally impose the same ideals into their offspring. It is indeed a viscous cycle.

[Caymen Greener]

Actually, both the author and the reader should feel comfortable expressing their values. The author did so in his book and in his reply, and the reader did so in his email. There is and should be nothing wrong with that, and it should not be seen as an imposition.

It's not just an older generation that believes homosexuality is wrong, although I don't think it's appropriate to debate that here. I wanted to comment on it in this thread, but actually Trek is, as many have said, about acceptance of a wide array of beliefs and ideals, including homosexuality. While someone like the reader might choose not to read based on that, and write an email, it does not mean the person is doing anything wrong. He can share his views as he pleases, including on whether he feels it is right or wrong to write Trek in that way. But then the author can reply just as he did. 'Mericuh!

So our own beliefs aside, no one did anything wrong here. In America, many other countries, and generally on the Internet, having these exchanges is completely acceptable and is not really an imposition on anyone's part.

[Solace]

Indeed Caymen you have made some good points there, but I have to disagree with you somewhat on the fact that throwing a book away because a topic or issue touched by the book offends you or causes discomfort makes reading books pretty pointless as most books tend to use Homosexuality (a point of contention) to enhance the flow of the book by engaging the reader more.

[Three of Seven]

Actually, both the author and the reader should feel comfortable expressing their values. The author did so in his book and in his reply, and the reader did so in his email. There is and should be nothing wrong with that, and it should not be seen as an imposition.

I would have to respectfully disagree, closing a book without finishing the story is considered by some readers, a crime! My mum has read books before, beginning to end then told me "That was terrible." it would have to be really bad for her to not finish it.

Discarding a book because you find the topic uncomfortable in some way goes against the whole notion of learning. If you are only willing to read things that are in your comfort zone, you are never going to learn new ideas, thoughts and opinions, it's dangerous on an intellectual level. Granted the email from the reader isn't directly insulting, it does make you wonder how they think and how the communicate with others.

Although the question really is, how did they get into Star Trek without ever realising that it touches on some subjects that aren't widely accepted...

[Solace]

Many authors around the world will use "Hot Topics" like Homosexuality in a effort to engage the reader on personal level in this case by using a Homosexual romance sub-plot to increase story development and to allow the reader to understand the character(s) better in a personal sort of way.

Using these elements in books can help people see these things from different perspectives in David Macks case the lesbian romance sub-plot to drive the character development on a personal level.

Books are usually written to expose people to different thoughts and ideas in a unique setting whether its fictional or factual, because you don't agree with these issues doesn't mean you should throw the book aside.

[Caymen Greener]

I would have to respectfully disagree, closing a book without finishing the story is considered by some readers, a crime! My mum has read books before, beginning to end then told me "That was terrible." it would have to be really bad for her to not finish it.

Discarding a book because you find the topic uncomfortable in some way goes against the whole notion of learning. If you are only willing to read things that are in your comfort zone, you are never going to learn new ideas, thoughts and opinions, it's dangerous on an intellectual level. Granted the email from the reader isn't directly insulting, it does make you wonder how they think and how the communicate with others.

Although the question really is, how did they get into Star Trek without ever realising that it touches on some subjects that aren't widely accepted...

Actually, someone can share their comments and opinions on the cover of the book alone, let alone half of it. It doesn't mean they are being smart about it, but it also doesn't mean they are "wrong" or imposing views. They are just making a claim based on whatever facts and/or feelings they have.

I'm not saying it was the best decision of the reader, but it's in their right to do what they did. Likewise, judging a book by a cover is typically not very smart - but doesn't make it "wrong".

[Solace]

Actually, someone can share their comments and opinions on the cover of the book alone, let alone half of it. It doesn't mean they are being smart about it, but it also doesn't mean they are "wrong" or imposing views. They are just making a claim based on whatever facts and/or feelings they have.

I'm not saying it was the best decision of the reader, but it's in their right to do what they did. Likewise, judging a book by a cover is typically not very smart - but doesn't make it "wrong".

Honestly Caymen, I'd have to say that yes while you are right, but you are also wrong. Like Three said by putting a book down because a topic is uncomfortable, it is dangerous on an intellectual level.

[Caymen Greener]

Honestly Caymen, I'd have to say that yes while you are right, but you are also wrong. Like Three said by putting a book down because a topic is uncomfortable, it is dangerous on an intellectual level.

Dangerous on an intellectual level = not smart. Again, it is not wrong (read: against the law, against moral codes, against laws of physics, against cultural tolerances) to make snap judgments or cast opinions based on a low number of facts. That said, it is likely not "smart" to do so. The reader is not doing anything illegal or immoral - they're just, arguably, being stupid or short-sighted.

Maybe we're all being too pedantic on the word "wrong", but what I'm saying is they have every right to cast such short-sighted views. They certainly aren't imposing anything on anyone, other than - according to some - a lack of intelligence or acceptance.