[darthnovawave]

Given that Voyager was a "-J" ship, it probably was a reference to the fact that the name and number were being recycled, whereas the Nog and other ships seen in the sequence had their own new numbers. It does raise the question though of why Starfleet waited until hundreds of years later to honor Nog of the DS9 era of the 24th century.

- - - Updated - - -

It is curious though that the ships are being depicted in the classic saucer, hull, pylons, & nacelles designs when Voyager introduced ship designs like the Aeon and USS Relativity in the 29th century. The argument could be made that those designs were specific to time-travel needs and dropped after time travel was banned, but still seems odd that there weren't a bit more diversity shown in the few designs we got to see on screen.

[Shadowmeph]

if it is refernce to Voyager the ship then it a screw up or can someone explain how they know about voyagers missions being lost then coming back ?

[Kyuusaku]

Why would it be a screw up? All they did was pan past Voyager-J, that was it. No one said anything.

-- Kyuu

[WelshAvenger]

if it is refernce to Voyager the ship then it a screw up or can someone explain how they know about voyagers missions being lost then coming back ?

It's fan service. Little easter eggs to show that the writers love the shows that came before, try not to read too much into it.

[Arno12]

Here's something I'm wondering about, the song Burnham noticed. Has trek had any species that utilized music in anyway? Maybe the Burn was the result of a botched First Contact by a highly advanced, highly evolved species, hence why no follow up invasion.

[WelshAvenger]

"Captain, we're picking up a strange transmission.."

"Let's hear it, Ensign."



"Engineering to bridge! The song is destabilizing the dilithium. THE WARP CORE IS .."

*KABOOM*

[Shadowmeph]

It's fan service. Little easter eggs to show that the writers love the shows that came before, try not to read too much into it.

if I remember correctly one of them mentioned about the story's they could tell about Voyager

[Petrarch]

if I remember correctly one of them mentioned about the story's they could tell about Voyager

The quote from the episode that I've seen in passing:

"The USS Voyager- ho! "J". That- that's ten generations of evolution?"
"Eleven. Would love to hear those stories."

So they don't actually know anything about the ship beyond that brief glimpse, their curiosity is simply peaked by it.

[Michael]

Another well done episode indeed!

Am I the only one though getting this sense that something dark is going on with this future UFP? It seems like Philippa was really zoned out, almost brain washed or something. It's almost as if control actually still exists and is keeping it under wraps for now until it's too late for Discovery. I'm probably thinking too much about this episode, I hope I'm wrong.

[WelshAvenger]

My $0.02. Not a fan of Burnham regressing to her her season 1 personality. "Oh no, this admiral is giving me an order I don't like, I'm going to start planning insubordination and skullduggery. Good for Saru in pulling her up short.

Aside from that small blip I enjoyed the episode. Dr Culber is rapidly becoming my favourite person in the crew and I'm glad to see them start to give him the screen time. The engineering trio's banter made me smile, especially when they played it up for an outsider.

I do wonder if they'll put on the uniform of the modern starfleet and I wonder if Discovery will be given any of the refit upgrades that command were planning for the ship.

[Kyuusaku]

My $0.02. Not a fan of Burnham regressing to her her season 1 personality. "Oh no, this admiral is giving me an order I don't like, I'm going to start planning insubordination and skullduggery. Good for Saru in pulling her up short..

I have to say that I disagree with her behavior being a sign of "regression" and I see it more as someone who got used to operating freely and independently for around a year, having a lot of re-entry issues fitting back into a chain of command. She operated fine within the chain of command in 90% of Season 1, under Lorca's "leadership," didn't she? Honestly, "Vulcan Hello" Burnham wasn't insubordinate; she was fiercely loyal to Captain Georgiou to her own fault, which was colored with the possible loss of her second mother figure at the hands of the Klingons in that instance.. and her choice to mutiny was out of fear, which Sarek warned her to not let her emotions drive her motivations when they spoke... and then she did the opposite.

I 100% agree that Saru needed to remind her that she was not an independent operator any longer, and he needed her to be Number One. But her decision-making process in "People of Earth" illuminated her thinking in "Die Trying" pretty well. imho.

Burnham is going through a more pronounced period of adjustment, along with the rest of the crew. I'm loving the dive into the psychology of the characters because it makes them feel incredibly real to me.

-- Kyuu

[darthnovawave]

My $0.02. Not a fan of Burnham regressing to her her season 1 personality. "Oh no, this admiral is giving me an order I don't like, I'm going to start planning insubordination and skullduggery. Good for Saru in pulling her up short.

Aside from that small blip I enjoyed the episode. Dr Culber is rapidly becoming my favourite person in the crew and I'm glad to see them start to give him the screen time. The engineering trio's banter made me smile, especially when they played it up for an outsider.

I do wonder if they'll put on the uniform of the modern starfleet and I wonder if Discovery will be given any of the refit upgrades that command were planning for the ship.

I rewatched the Season 3 trailer and the clip for next week's episode in the "Ready Room" aftershow and noticed that there are a few shots that feature the rounded 32nd century style badges instead of the more angular delta shape of past seasons, so I don't think we'll see a full wardrobe upgrade at least in the short term. Seems like I've seen snippits of new tech on the ship too in other clips, like a new interface for the spore drive chamber, but can't seem to remember where I saw that one.

As far as characters, it is definitely nice to see some of the other characters getting at least hints of character development this season. Usually past Trek series have spent a fair amount of time developing the senior staff/bridge crew, but we've had very little development of characters like Culber, Detmer, and several others, and we actually had Airiam's original actress from 2018 shift quietly into "Lt Nilsson" this season out of nowhere for several episodes now. I understand that Discovery has far fewer episodes per season to play with character development than past series, but most of the time available to drive character development was spent on characters like Lorca and Pike, and while they had great story lines they also were ultimately disposable, limited time characters in the grand scheme of things (...at least it would look like that's the case for at least ST: Disco...). Hopefully we'll get a little more balance this season and actually start caring for those several actors that have had a lot of camera time but very limited dialogue so far. So far there are at least signs this will happen.

[Sul-Matuul]

I to be perfectly fair to DSC they simply do not have the luxury of the volume of episodes that older Trek shows had to develop 10+ different characters with full backstories and multiple episodes dedicated to minor plots for them.

DSC's main cast essentially consists of Burnham, Saru. Tilly, Stamets, Culber, Reno, possibly Detmer; that's 7 members. With only 14 or so episodes per season compared to older shows with 24 per season there simply isn't the space to give them all multiple character building episodes! You have to spend half the season on slow going single character focus and the main plot would become side-lined to the detriment of the whole season.

TNG never had a wider plot arc, so it had the ability to do what it wanted. DS9 had a big plot arc for many seasons but had hundreds or episodes to play with to fit in a multitude of character development focused stories. VOY was the same again. ENT was a bit odd because I don't think we ever really saw it grow into the show it could have been and tbh several of the characters were just boring no mater what stories they had (cough, cough...Hoshi and Travis - whose name I couldn't even remember!).
Hell, if you REALLY want to talk about character development episodes then consider that in TNG Lt. Barclay had MORE episodes devoted to him ((as a semi-recurring character) than Troi; who was a main cast member!

It's very easy to criticise the show but it's got so much less room to play with than anything before. This season is definitely an improvement on the last two; yet another Trek show following the lead of getting vastly better after the first couple of seasons!
I don't think we need entire episodes devoted to cast members, but using them more and more like we now have with Culber is a good way to get them developed a bit better.
I don't need to know every minutiae of Detmer's childhood when just getting her talking about her trauma on the bridge will do quite a bit to advance her character.

[Kyuusaku]

Hell, if you REALLY want to talk about character development episodes then consider that in TNG Lt. Barclay had MORE episodes devoted to him ((as a semi-recurring character) than Troi; who was a main cast member!.

This stood out to me while I was reading, so I wanted to see if this was true. Barclay appeared in five TNG episodes in total: "Hollow Pursuits, "The Nth Degree, "Realm of Fear," "Ship in a Bottle," and "Genesis." The latter two were not entirely focused on him as the first three were; it felt more like they were showing Barclay as an integrated part of the crew, but we'll include them anyway because why not?

If we want, we could also add the Voyager episodes, but I feel like this wouldn't be fair to Troi; she guested in three episodes. Barclay was in six (one where he played a dual role as a hologram ["Projections"], one as an alternate future version of himself ["Endgame"]).

Deanna Troi-centric episodes in TNG included: "Haven," "The Child," "Loud as a Whisper," "The Price," "The Loss," "Cost of Living," "Violations," "The Masterpiece Society," "Menage a Troi," "Face of the Enemy," "Man of the People," "Disaster," "Thine Own Self," "Dark Page," and "Eye of the Beholder." There's actually a lot more where she featured prominently as a supporting character (especially with Worf and Alexander's running arc), and there's also "Manhunt," but that was a dominant Picard/Lwaxana story than it was character development for Deanna. I also excluded any episodes where she's a hologram ("Future Imperfect") or possessed ("Power Play") or an illusion ("Frame of Mind") or a cake ("Phantasms.")

Deanna wins by a score of 16 to 5.

-- Kyuu

[Mr Dobilina]

I loved this episode, just wish some of the scenes around starfleet headquarters were clearer to see - so I can really look at what's out there and the ship styles.