Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Commendation
Commendation (150 Points)
Awarded during the UFP Award Ceremony to those who go above and beyond for the community
Unlocked Sat 29 Jun, 2019 9:56 PM
0.24% have received this achievement
Set Phasers To Frag
Very Rare (100 Points)
Win an Annual Elite Force Tournament
Unlocked Sun 28 Aug, 2016 7:24 PM
0.04% have received this achievement
Top Brass
Very Rare (100 Points)
Reach the highest Starfleet Rank
Unlocked Sat 17 Dec, 2016 10:30 PM
0.03% have received this achievement
To Infinity and Beyond
Very Rare (100 Points)
Reach ten-thousand posts on the forums
Grandfathered
0.02% have received this achievement
Highly Decorated
Very Rare (100 Points)
Receive every medal the UFP has to offer
Unlocked Sun 27 Mar, 2016 2:00 PM
0.18% have received this achievement
Hearthstone Tournament Winner
Very Rare (100 Points)
Win the annual Hearthstone Tournament
Unlocked Mon 04 Jul, 2016 6:08 PM
0.01% have received this achievement
Posted Thu 14 Aug, 2014 1:54 PM
This thread may contain spoilers regarding the Vanguard series of novels.
David Mack, author of a number of Star Trek books, responded to an email from a reader regarding the lesbian love interest in Harbinger, part of the Vanguard series. Just to summaries before I link to David Macks blog post responding to this email, the reader was offended when they got to the part involving the love interest and stopped reading, telling the author that they will no longer be buying anymore of their books.
The reader in the email states "...but the truth is homosexually is not universally accepted...", I hesitate to refer to the reader as a Star Trek fan because of this comment, the series is known for its depiction of issues that are not universally accepted by society at a given time and the TV show itself has shown these, there is no reason books shouldn't continue the tradition.
Note that the author does swear in his response, just so you are forewarned, here is the link: http://infinitydog.livejournal.com/393064.html
What is your opinion of the matter, are there any issues that shouldn't be discussed in novels? And do you feel the authors response is appropriate?
Admiral
Head of Community Administration
Commendation
Commendation (150 Points)
Awarded during the UFP Award Ceremony to those who go above and beyond for the community
Unlocked Sat 29 Jun, 2024 9:32 PM
0.24% have received this achievement
Constable
Very Rare (100 Points)
Be Federation Administrative Bureau Commanding Officer
Unlocked Sun 18 Feb, 2024 11:34 PM
0.01% have received this achievement
Pillar of the Community
Very Rare (100 Points)
Be a registered user for 10 years
Unlocked Fri 26 Apr, 2024 6:07 AM
36.01% have received this achievement
Highly Decorated
Very Rare (100 Points)
Receive every medal the UFP has to offer
Unlocked Sat 24 Mar, 2018 11:00 PM
0.18% have received this achievement
Admiral Council
Rare (50 Points)
Join the Federation Executive Office
Grandfathered
0.06% have received this achievement
Admiral
Rare (50 Points)
Receive a promotion to the rank of Admiral
Unlocked Sat 17 Dec, 2016 10:39 PM
0.22% have received this achievement
Posted Thu 14 Aug, 2014 2:14 PM
Lieutenant Commander
Paragon of Duty
Uncommon (25 Points)
Sign three roll calls in a row
Grandfathered
9.60% have received this achievement
Eternal Servitude!
Uncommon (25 Points)
Be a registered user for five years
Unlocked Sun 03 Jul, 2016 8:01 PM
80.40% have received this achievement
Tour of Duty
Uncommon (25 Points)
RSVP to ten events via the Events System
Grandfathered
1.27% have received this achievement
Deans List
Uncommon (25 Points)
Pass all three Academy exams
Grandfathered
3.88% have received this achievement
Stepping Forward
Uncommon (25 Points)
Going from Clearance Level 3 to Clearance Level 4
Unlocked Sat 29 Sep, 2018 1:28 PM
1.86% have received this achievement
The Mad House
Common (10 Points)
Be a member of the Holodeck
Grandfathered
12.74% have received this achievement
Posted Thu 14 Aug, 2014 2:29 PM
David Mack is one of my favorite Trek writers to date. Thanks to his Destiny Series which i enjoy alot.
I am happy that he took this approach as his response. using IDIC as the main point of his arguement was also great.
I think this should be the general stance for all Trek writers. Trek universe is far beyond mere prejudices like this.
Peace At Home, Peace at World - M.Kemal ATATURK
Commodore
Pillar of the Community
Very Rare (100 Points)
Be a registered user for 10 years
Unlocked Mon 29 Aug, 2022 7:06 AM
36.01% have received this achievement
Academy Dean
Rare (50 Points)
Be Head of Starfleet Academy
Grandfathered
0.08% have received this achievement
The Fool
Rare (50 Points)
Got pranked on April 1st
Unlocked Thu 01 Apr, 2021 11:15 AM
0.45% have received this achievement
To Boldly Go On and On
Rare (50 Points)
Reach one-thousand posts on the forums
Grandfathered
0.69% have received this achievement
Rear Admiral
Rare (50 Points)
Receive a promotion to the rank of Rear Admiral
Unlocked Fri 28 Nov, 2014 11:49 PM
0.48% have received this achievement
Commodore
Rare (50 Points)
Receive a promotion to the rank of Commodore
Grandfathered
0.50% have received this achievement
Posted Thu 14 Aug, 2014 2:30 PM
Its unfortunate that the reader didn't continue with the novels after that book, the fact that they were lesbian was largely irrelevant, the story arc that followed from that relationship was extremely profound and involved profound emotion and tragic raw loss. It is one of David Mack's finest literary works, the reader did himself a major disservice for not continuing.
Lieutenant
Pillar of the Community
Very Rare (100 Points)
Be a registered user for 10 years
Unlocked Mon 22 Apr, 2019 7:01 PM
36.01% have received this achievement
Dedicated
Rare (50 Points)
Volunteer for 1+ year
Unlocked Tue 07 May, 2019 10:19 AM
0.54% have received this achievement
Correspondent
Rare (50 Points)
Submit a Federation News Service article
Unlocked Tue 07 May, 2019 10:19 AM
0.42% have received this achievement
To Boldly Go On and On
Rare (50 Points)
Reach one-thousand posts on the forums
Grandfathered
0.69% have received this achievement
Stepping Forward
Uncommon (25 Points)
Going from Clearance Level 3 to Clearance Level 4
Unlocked Tue 07 May, 2019 10:19 AM
1.86% have received this achievement
Tabloid Journalism
Common (10 Points)
Be a writer for the Federation News Service
Unlocked Tue 07 May, 2019 10:19 AM
0.43% have received this achievement
Posted Thu 14 Aug, 2014 2:37 PM
Well, if i were to criticize David Mack, It's wouldn't be for that, I'm still upset at him for blowing up half the alpha quadrant in the destiny trilogy. But back on topic. I fully agree with him. From it's beginnings Star Trek has always portrayed a very progressive point of view, all the way back to Kirk and Uhura kissing, something that was Taboo back in the 60's. Watch 40 years from now no one will bat an eye at this type of thing, at least that's my optimist hope.
Always remember: Never accept the world for what it appears to be. Dare to see it for what it could be. - Dr. Harold Winston.
Admiral
Deputy Head of Administration
Commendation
Commendation (150 Points)
Awarded during the UFP Award Ceremony to those who go above and beyond for the community
Unlocked Sat 28 Mar, 2020 10:11 PM
0.24% have received this achievement
Pillar of the Community
Very Rare (100 Points)
Be a registered user for 10 years
Unlocked Thu 11 Aug, 2022 1:05 AM
36.01% have received this achievement
...and On and On
Very Rare (100 Points)
Reach five-thousand posts on the forums
Unlocked Fri 14 Feb, 2020 8:03 PM
0.08% have received this achievement
Editor-and-Chief
Rare (50 Points)
Be Federation News Service CO
Unlocked Fri 10 Feb, 2023 3:02 PM
0.08% have received this achievement
Deputized
Rare (50 Points)
Be Federation Administrative Bureau Executive Officer
Unlocked Tue 30 Jul, 2024 4:40 PM
0.01% have received this achievement
Highly Decorated
Very Rare (100 Points)
Receive every medal the UFP has to offer
Unlocked Sat 26 Sep, 2020 10:02 PM
0.18% have received this achievement
Posted Thu 14 Aug, 2014 2:49 PM
Indeed I have to say that David Mack is one of my favorite Star Trek Authors and I am currently reading "Reap The Whirlwind". To echo what Kerry said above that the issues that plague the world today, homophobia and race prejudice to name a few would be a thing of the past.
But while it is true that Homosexuality is not universally accepted by everyone does mean that a fictional universe should reject those issues and ideals too. I think its good when a novel openly embraces Homosexuality to create interesting romance sub-plots and character development, like Kerry said Deep Space Nine depicted the lesbian kiss between Dax and her former hosts wife.
When I read the book Harbinger the deception of the lesbian love interest was not graphic in any way nor did it give out sordid details, frankly it baffles me as to why someone can get hung up on the idea of a lesbian love interest in a novel.
Admiral
Commendation
Commendation (150 Points)
Awarded during the UFP Award Ceremony to those who go above and beyond for the community
Unlocked Sat 23 Mar, 2019 11:47 PM
0.24% have received this achievement
Pillar of the Community
Very Rare (100 Points)
Be a registered user for 10 years
Unlocked Thu 18 Feb, 2021 9:02 AM
36.01% have received this achievement
...and On and On
Very Rare (100 Points)
Reach five-thousand posts on the forums
Grandfathered
0.08% have received this achievement
Highly Decorated
Very Rare (100 Points)
Receive every medal the UFP has to offer
Unlocked Sat 25 Mar, 2017 10:41 PM
0.18% have received this achievement
Dedicated
Rare (50 Points)
Volunteer for 1+ year
Unlocked Fri 05 Oct, 2018 12:14 AM
0.54% have received this achievement
The Fool
Rare (50 Points)
Got pranked on April 1st
Unlocked Thu 01 Apr, 2021 2:22 PM
0.45% have received this achievement
Posted Thu 14 Aug, 2014 3:03 PM
I find it... interesting that some people have such passion (and the "need") to impose their opinions onto others. I say, "good for David Mack".
I've read the Vanguard series and the sub-plot between these two lovers were among my more favorite ones. As many have stated, Mr. Mack did an incredible job. These two character had such depth that they were so vivid... more so, you could easily identify or empathize with them, and their dilemma.
At least, from what I have read... this person who is complaining didn't bring up any negativity about the relationship being cross-species. Then again, it was Vulcan and Klingon... so why the big deal?
Admiral
Deputy Head of Administration
Commendation
Commendation (150 Points)
Awarded during the UFP Award Ceremony to those who go above and beyond for the community
Unlocked Sat 28 Mar, 2020 10:11 PM
0.24% have received this achievement
Pillar of the Community
Very Rare (100 Points)
Be a registered user for 10 years
Unlocked Thu 11 Aug, 2022 1:05 AM
36.01% have received this achievement
...and On and On
Very Rare (100 Points)
Reach five-thousand posts on the forums
Unlocked Fri 14 Feb, 2020 8:03 PM
0.08% have received this achievement
Editor-and-Chief
Rare (50 Points)
Be Federation News Service CO
Unlocked Fri 10 Feb, 2023 3:02 PM
0.08% have received this achievement
Deputized
Rare (50 Points)
Be Federation Administrative Bureau Executive Officer
Unlocked Tue 30 Jul, 2024 4:40 PM
0.01% have received this achievement
Highly Decorated
Very Rare (100 Points)
Receive every medal the UFP has to offer
Unlocked Sat 26 Sep, 2020 10:02 PM
0.18% have received this achievement
Posted Thu 14 Aug, 2014 3:45 PM
I find it... interesting that some people have such passion (and the "need") to impose their opinions onto others. I say, "good for David Mack".
I've read the Vanguard series and the sub-plot between these two lovers were among my more favorite ones. As many have stated, Mr. Mack did an incredible job. These two character had such depth that they were so vivid... more so, you could easily identify or empathize with them, and their dilemma.
At least, from what I have read... this person who is complaining didn't bring up any negativity about the relationship being cross-species. Then again, it was Vulcan and Klingon... so why the big deal?
Like you said Silynn, "The need to impose their opinions onto others". It's a sad reality that we currently live in. The "older" generation that were brought up to believe Homosexuality is wrong generally impose the same ideals into their offspring. It is indeed a viscous cycle.
Commodore
Pillar of the Community
Very Rare (100 Points)
Be a registered user for 10 years
Unlocked Wed 03 Jun, 2020 6:09 AM
36.01% have received this achievement
Scribe
Rare (50 Points)
Be the Roleplay Division Commanding Officer
Unlocked 4 Weeks Ago
0.04% have received this achievement
The Fool
Rare (50 Points)
Got pranked on April 1st
Unlocked Fri 01 Apr, 2022 12:27 PM
0.45% have received this achievement
The Ghost Writer [Legacy]
Rare (50 Points)
Be the Commanding Officer of the Ares Division
Unlocked Sat 29 Sep, 2018 1:05 PM
0.04% have received this achievement
Starfleet's Finest [Legacy]
Common (10 Points)
Be a member of Starfleet Operations
Grandfathered
27.38% have received this achievement
Old School Gamer [Legacy]
Common (10 Points)
Be a member of Starfleet Tactical
Grandfathered
6.84% have received this achievement
Posted Thu 14 Aug, 2014 3:50 PM
Actually, both the author and the reader should feel comfortable expressing their values. The author did so in his book and in his reply, and the reader did so in his email. There is and should be nothing wrong with that, and it should not be seen as an imposition.
It's not just an older generation that believes homosexuality is wrong, although I don't think it's appropriate to debate that here. I wanted to comment on it in this thread, but actually Trek is, as many have said, about acceptance of a wide array of beliefs and ideals, including homosexuality. While someone like the reader might choose not to read based on that, and write an email, it does not mean the person is doing anything wrong. He can share his views as he pleases, including on whether he feels it is right or wrong to write Trek in that way. But then the author can reply just as he did. 'Mericuh!
So our own beliefs aside, no one did anything wrong here. In America, many other countries, and generally on the Internet, having these exchanges is completely acceptable and is not really an imposition on anyone's part.
Admiral
Deputy Head of Administration
Commendation
Commendation (150 Points)
Awarded during the UFP Award Ceremony to those who go above and beyond for the community
Unlocked Sat 28 Mar, 2020 10:11 PM
0.24% have received this achievement
Pillar of the Community
Very Rare (100 Points)
Be a registered user for 10 years
Unlocked Thu 11 Aug, 2022 1:05 AM
36.01% have received this achievement
...and On and On
Very Rare (100 Points)
Reach five-thousand posts on the forums
Unlocked Fri 14 Feb, 2020 8:03 PM
0.08% have received this achievement
Editor-and-Chief
Rare (50 Points)
Be Federation News Service CO
Unlocked Fri 10 Feb, 2023 3:02 PM
0.08% have received this achievement
Deputized
Rare (50 Points)
Be Federation Administrative Bureau Executive Officer
Unlocked Tue 30 Jul, 2024 4:40 PM
0.01% have received this achievement
Highly Decorated
Very Rare (100 Points)
Receive every medal the UFP has to offer
Unlocked Sat 26 Sep, 2020 10:02 PM
0.18% have received this achievement
Posted Thu 14 Aug, 2014 4:04 PM
–
Last edited by Solace; Thu 14 Aug, 2014 5:40 PM.
Indeed Caymen you have made some good points there, but I have to disagree with you somewhat on the fact that throwing a book away because a topic or issue touched by the book offends you or causes discomfort makes reading books pretty pointless as most books tend to use Homosexuality (a point of contention) to enhance the flow of the book by engaging the reader more.
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Commendation
Commendation (150 Points)
Awarded during the UFP Award Ceremony to those who go above and beyond for the community
Unlocked Sat 29 Jun, 2019 9:56 PM
0.24% have received this achievement
Set Phasers To Frag
Very Rare (100 Points)
Win an Annual Elite Force Tournament
Unlocked Sun 28 Aug, 2016 7:24 PM
0.04% have received this achievement
Top Brass
Very Rare (100 Points)
Reach the highest Starfleet Rank
Unlocked Sat 17 Dec, 2016 10:30 PM
0.03% have received this achievement
To Infinity and Beyond
Very Rare (100 Points)
Reach ten-thousand posts on the forums
Grandfathered
0.02% have received this achievement
Highly Decorated
Very Rare (100 Points)
Receive every medal the UFP has to offer
Unlocked Sun 27 Mar, 2016 2:00 PM
0.18% have received this achievement
Hearthstone Tournament Winner
Very Rare (100 Points)
Win the annual Hearthstone Tournament
Unlocked Mon 04 Jul, 2016 6:08 PM
0.01% have received this achievement
Posted Thu 14 Aug, 2014 5:13 PM
Actually, both the author and the reader should feel comfortable expressing their values. The author did so in his book and in his reply, and the reader did so in his email. There is and should be nothing wrong with that, and it should not be seen as an imposition.
I would have to respectfully disagree, closing a book without finishing the story is considered by some readers, a crime! My mum has read books before, beginning to end then told me "That was terrible." it would have to be really bad for her to not finish it.
Discarding a book because you find the topic uncomfortable in some way goes against the whole notion of learning. If you are only willing to read things that are in your comfort zone, you are never going to learn new ideas, thoughts and opinions, it's dangerous on an intellectual level. Granted the email from the reader isn't directly insulting, it does make you wonder how they think and how the communicate with others.
Although the question really is, how did they get into Star Trek without ever realising that it touches on some subjects that aren't widely accepted...
Admiral
Deputy Head of Administration
Commendation
Commendation (150 Points)
Awarded during the UFP Award Ceremony to those who go above and beyond for the community
Unlocked Sat 28 Mar, 2020 10:11 PM
0.24% have received this achievement
Pillar of the Community
Very Rare (100 Points)
Be a registered user for 10 years
Unlocked Thu 11 Aug, 2022 1:05 AM
36.01% have received this achievement
...and On and On
Very Rare (100 Points)
Reach five-thousand posts on the forums
Unlocked Fri 14 Feb, 2020 8:03 PM
0.08% have received this achievement
Editor-and-Chief
Rare (50 Points)
Be Federation News Service CO
Unlocked Fri 10 Feb, 2023 3:02 PM
0.08% have received this achievement
Deputized
Rare (50 Points)
Be Federation Administrative Bureau Executive Officer
Unlocked Tue 30 Jul, 2024 4:40 PM
0.01% have received this achievement
Highly Decorated
Very Rare (100 Points)
Receive every medal the UFP has to offer
Unlocked Sat 26 Sep, 2020 10:02 PM
0.18% have received this achievement
Posted Thu 14 Aug, 2014 5:45 PM
–
Last edited by Solace; Thu 14 Aug, 2014 5:46 PM.
Many authors around the world will use "Hot Topics" like Homosexuality in a effort to engage the reader on personal level in this case by using a Homosexual romance sub-plot to increase story development and to allow the reader to understand the character(s) better in a personal sort of way.
Using these elements in books can help people see these things from different perspectives in David Macks case the lesbian romance sub-plot to drive the character development on a personal level.
Books are usually written to expose people to different thoughts and ideas in a unique setting whether its fictional or factual, because you don't agree with these issues doesn't mean you should throw the book aside.
Commodore
Pillar of the Community
Very Rare (100 Points)
Be a registered user for 10 years
Unlocked Wed 03 Jun, 2020 6:09 AM
36.01% have received this achievement
Scribe
Rare (50 Points)
Be the Roleplay Division Commanding Officer
Unlocked 4 Weeks Ago
0.04% have received this achievement
The Fool
Rare (50 Points)
Got pranked on April 1st
Unlocked Fri 01 Apr, 2022 12:27 PM
0.45% have received this achievement
The Ghost Writer [Legacy]
Rare (50 Points)
Be the Commanding Officer of the Ares Division
Unlocked Sat 29 Sep, 2018 1:05 PM
0.04% have received this achievement
Starfleet's Finest [Legacy]
Common (10 Points)
Be a member of Starfleet Operations
Grandfathered
27.38% have received this achievement
Old School Gamer [Legacy]
Common (10 Points)
Be a member of Starfleet Tactical
Grandfathered
6.84% have received this achievement
Posted Thu 14 Aug, 2014 5:49 PM
I would have to respectfully disagree, closing a book without finishing the story is considered by some readers, a crime! My mum has read books before, beginning to end then told me "That was terrible." it would have to be really bad for her to not finish it.
Discarding a book because you find the topic uncomfortable in some way goes against the whole notion of learning. If you are only willing to read things that are in your comfort zone, you are never going to learn new ideas, thoughts and opinions, it's dangerous on an intellectual level. Granted the email from the reader isn't directly insulting, it does make you wonder how they think and how the communicate with others.
Although the question really is, how did they get into Star Trek without ever realising that it touches on some subjects that aren't widely accepted...
Actually, someone can share their comments and opinions on the cover of the book alone, let alone half of it. It doesn't mean they are being smart about it, but it also doesn't mean they are "wrong" or imposing views. They are just making a claim based on whatever facts and/or feelings they have.
I'm not saying it was the best decision of the reader, but it's in their right to do what they did. Likewise, judging a book by a cover is typically not very smart - but doesn't make it "wrong".
Admiral
Deputy Head of Administration
Commendation
Commendation (150 Points)
Awarded during the UFP Award Ceremony to those who go above and beyond for the community
Unlocked Sat 28 Mar, 2020 10:11 PM
0.24% have received this achievement
Pillar of the Community
Very Rare (100 Points)
Be a registered user for 10 years
Unlocked Thu 11 Aug, 2022 1:05 AM
36.01% have received this achievement
...and On and On
Very Rare (100 Points)
Reach five-thousand posts on the forums
Unlocked Fri 14 Feb, 2020 8:03 PM
0.08% have received this achievement
Editor-and-Chief
Rare (50 Points)
Be Federation News Service CO
Unlocked Fri 10 Feb, 2023 3:02 PM
0.08% have received this achievement
Deputized
Rare (50 Points)
Be Federation Administrative Bureau Executive Officer
Unlocked Tue 30 Jul, 2024 4:40 PM
0.01% have received this achievement
Highly Decorated
Very Rare (100 Points)
Receive every medal the UFP has to offer
Unlocked Sat 26 Sep, 2020 10:02 PM
0.18% have received this achievement
Posted Thu 14 Aug, 2014 6:08 PM
Actually, someone can share their comments and opinions on the cover of the book alone, let alone half of it. It doesn't mean they are being smart about it, but it also doesn't mean they are "wrong" or imposing views. They are just making a claim based on whatever facts and/or feelings they have.
I'm not saying it was the best decision of the reader, but it's in their right to do what they did. Likewise, judging a book by a cover is typically not very smart - but doesn't make it "wrong".
Honestly Caymen, I'd have to say that yes while you are right, but you are also wrong. Like Three said by putting a book down because a topic is uncomfortable, it is dangerous on an intellectual level.
Commodore
Pillar of the Community
Very Rare (100 Points)
Be a registered user for 10 years
Unlocked Wed 03 Jun, 2020 6:09 AM
36.01% have received this achievement
Scribe
Rare (50 Points)
Be the Roleplay Division Commanding Officer
Unlocked 4 Weeks Ago
0.04% have received this achievement
The Fool
Rare (50 Points)
Got pranked on April 1st
Unlocked Fri 01 Apr, 2022 12:27 PM
0.45% have received this achievement
The Ghost Writer [Legacy]
Rare (50 Points)
Be the Commanding Officer of the Ares Division
Unlocked Sat 29 Sep, 2018 1:05 PM
0.04% have received this achievement
Starfleet's Finest [Legacy]
Common (10 Points)
Be a member of Starfleet Operations
Grandfathered
27.38% have received this achievement
Old School Gamer [Legacy]
Common (10 Points)
Be a member of Starfleet Tactical
Grandfathered
6.84% have received this achievement
Posted Thu 14 Aug, 2014 6:40 PM
Honestly Caymen, I'd have to say that yes while you are right, but you are also wrong. Like Three said by putting a book down because a topic is uncomfortable, it is dangerous on an intellectual level.
Dangerous on an intellectual level = not smart. Again, it is not wrong (read: against the law, against moral codes, against laws of physics, against cultural tolerances) to make snap judgments or cast opinions based on a low number of facts. That said, it is likely not "smart" to do so. The reader is not doing anything illegal or immoral - they're just, arguably, being stupid or short-sighted.
Maybe we're all being too pedantic on the word "wrong", but what I'm saying is they have every right to cast such short-sighted views. They certainly aren't imposing anything on anyone, other than - according to some - a lack of intelligence or acceptance.