[Three of Seven]

But generally I'm ignoring a lot of the "vocal" complaints around the internet because it's pretty clear there are those with some serious brigading operations going on and trying to push a specific hatred of DSC. Youtube comments and dislikes are pretty much becoming an echo chamber for hate groups it seems and rumours are nearly all being pushed based on some questionable evidence and a lot of guesswork, all on top of pretty subjective points of view.
From my own circle of friend the majority seem to enjoy the show, and they enjoyed all the previous ones too. So to me the over the top bitterness seems to not really gel with what i'm actually surrounded by and seeing daily.

The problem with this argument is that I can say that I'm ignoring a lot of the "vocal" praise for Discovery, and people who like it are just in an echo chamber for those who love the show. And from my own circle of friends, the majority don't seem to enjoy the show, they enjoyed the older Star Trek, but not Discovery, and it's something I see daily.

See, this doesn't work because people have different opinions, and you are dismissing mine, and others, by implying that anyone who doesn't like Discovery is in an echo chamber for hate groups, and/or are part of brigading operations. No, I just don't like it, same with others, they just don't like it, I don't understand why that is hard to accept.

I can't comment on the quality of The Orville because I have yet to see it, I was just pointing at raw data that is available to me.

I shall also point out, that Den of Geek, which often praises Discovery did not like this episode, gave it a 1 out of 5 - https://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/star...point-of-light

Why? Because it doesn't feel like it has a direction, a vision, and how they put it "As Discovery exists now, it just feels like this show is continuing to throw spaghetti at the wall and, sadly, not much of it is sticking", which has been my issue with the past 3 episodes, it doesn't know what it wants to be.

[Mack]

But generally I'm ignoring a lot of the "vocal" complaints around the internet because it's pretty clear there are those with some serious brigading operations going on and trying to push a specific hatred of DSC. Youtube comments and dislikes are pretty much becoming an echo chamber for hate groups it seems and rumours are nearly all being pushed based on some questionable evidence and a lot of guesswork, all on top of pretty subjective points of view.
From my own circle of friend the majority seem to enjoy the show, and they enjoyed all the previous ones too. So to me the over the top bitterness seems to not really gel with what i'm actually surrounded by and seeing daily.

As far as it goes for being 'vocal'. This reminds me of the episode from DS9 where Quark schools the Vulcan on weapons "They have weapons, you have weapons, everyone has weapons". From what I read on internet everyone is vocal, not just a particular group. Those who like it are vocal, those who don't like it are vocal and those who are neutral are also vocal.

From my own circle of friends, the majority of the people are those who prefered shows of TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise. Why? While each Trek introduced changes, the change was only so much enough to respect already set precedence and not attempt to revamp anything too drastically in terms of already known universe lore while also showing a new perspective. At the same time, we understand why some of our other friends in the group like Disco, but we don't stereotype them to be "non-trekkie" or part of a group or a hater of classic trek. We also get into heated discussions but it's all banter really, we don't consider the other to be bitter but understand people get passionate when representing their point of view. I suppose that's the advantage of being in a circle of friends with mixed opinions.

To me, what I don't get is why people wander into discussions forum to call the person on the other side with a different opinion to be a hater. I know my interests, but I like to know and discuss the other side's interests too, maybe even learn a new perspective of looking at things or to discuss on them further. Either way, Star Trek benefits from discussions as any publicity is good publicity.

[Stormy]

I don't disagree with that. Good or bad, this is what we got. I also believe the new Picard series will be similar, no ensemble cast.

In all likelihood, you are correct about the Picard series. The difference with that one is I expect it to be named Picard... or Star Trek: Picard. This show is named DISCOVERY, which is about a ship, not one person. If Discovery continues on this path I, and I believe a lot of others, will stop watching and CBS will lose a lot of All Access subscribers.

[Three of Seven]

As far as it goes for being 'vocal'. This reminds me of the episode from DS9 where Quark schools the Vulcan on weapons "They have weapons, you have weapons, everyone has weapons". From what I read on internet everyone is vocal, not just a particular group. Those who like it are vocal, those who don't like it are vocal and those who are neutral are also vocal.

From my own circle of friends, the majority of the people are those who prefered shows of TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise. Why? While each Trek introduced changes, the change was only so much enough to respect already set precedence and not attempt to revamp anything too drastically in terms of already known universe lore while also showing a new perspective. At the same time, we understand why some of our other friends in the group like Disco, but we don't stereotype them to be "non-trekkie" or part of a group or a hater of classic trek. We also get into heated discussions but it's all banter really, we don't consider the other to be bitter but understand people get passionate when representing their point of view. I suppose that's the advantage of being in a circle of friends with mixed opinions.

To me, what I don't get is why people wander into discussions forum to call the person on the other side with a different opinion to be a hater. I know my interests, but I like to know and discuss the other side's interests too, maybe even learn a new perspective of looking at things or to discuss on them further. Either way, Star Trek benefits from discussions as any publicity is good publicity.

Well said.

[Rellimie]

Not every episode of discovery needs to be great or even good. Every show has dud episodes.

I like The Orville, it’s entertaining. I don’t think it’s anything like Star Trek and the people that keep saying it is are confused I believe

I love Discovery. I like season long story arcs, darker tones, and yes I do like it when the endings aren’t always tied into a nice little bow. That’s me, everyone likes something different.

TOS fans didn’t like TNG (at first)
TNG fans didn’t like DS9 (at first)
DS9 fans didn’t like VOY (at first)
Most fans didn’t like ENT (at first)

The thing about TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT is that since all four shows were produced back to back to back to back and for the same generation of viewers they all had a very similar formula. That formula is what The Orville is attempting to use now. It’s TBD if it still works, the ratings say it doesn’t.

Discovery is trying to adapt Star Trek to the current viewer. It pisses off some long time fans for sure as they want that tried and true formula that they loved however a lot of these same discussions happened when TNG started out. The only way we will know if it works is if hey keep renewing the show.

Could they have made better decisions? Absolutely. They should have made it post Nemesis. Maybe 26th or 27th century.
Could they have chosen a different character to feature? Probably yes.
Could they have made Tilly less annoying? I wish.

I’m looking forward to the expanded Star Trek universe,

[Sul-Matuul]

So just because I point out something evident on any visit to Youtube i'm being unacceptable? I'm not targeting anyone here, i'm just stating what I see daily, something which is very real.

That's just nonsense, there's a clear set of individuals using their influence and channels on that site to "stir up" a crowd of hatred fueled, pitchfork wielding people to shout down and fill every single comment section with dislikes and all manner of arguments and claims. Youtubers who claim to have "insider knowledge" or "contacts" or who have "seen memos", and those who are probably being paid by advertisers for every person they get following their videos. There's a clear agenda for that particular group and whilst it might not include all people who dislike the show, it's very clearly and extremely vocal section of the so called fanbase.
There is a massive difference between someone saying they dislike the show in a civil and polite way, and the sort of thing that can be openly observed on some parts of the internet (massive ranting videos, Youtuber's encouraging people to mass downvote, claims of SJW nonsense, racist/sexist/homophobic rants against the cast.

People who like the show like myself simply don't bother posting videos praising it, or really discussing it openly at all because it always ends the same.
I'm only on here talking about it because people here are more respectful of each other. But i'd never dream of doing so on a more public area.

If anyone here is offended by my view i apologize, but other parts of the crowd who dislike the show are not so civil as people here unfortunately.

[Three of Seven]

If anyone here is offended by my view i apologize, but other parts of the crowd who dislike the show are not so civil as people here unfortunately.

The problem here is no one was talking about the people on YouTube, or other communities, it's only us in this thread, so your comment came off, atleast to me, as dismissive of anyone who has a negative opinion, and lumps them into the same category of hate groups, or being in an echo chamber. Mack summed everything up very nicely, his post is great.

But, let's end this off topic discussion now, the episode is what is being discussed, and we are discussing among UFP members, not people who aren't present, so we shouldn't reference them at all.

This episode was not good, it wanted to be Game of Thrones, being overly dark and graphic. The love interest in the Klingon scenes seemed very similar to Jon Snow and Daenerys, the fight scene was very close to something for GoT, down to the music. Like I said on the first episode, it was doing things similar to BSG, Discovery has an identity crisis, it doesn't have a vision, or a plan.

[Solace]

I worry about where Discovery is going with the latest episode. It did seem as though it was trying to echo what Game of Thrones pulls off very well. I wouldn't have a problem with the fake Tyler head but the dead baby seemed a step too far for Trek. If it was just the Tyler head shown, it might have been a bit more believable. It would have shown the Klingons as a far more brutal race compared to that of Humanity and other races.

Also the whole side story with the "thing" inside Tilly.. was just.. uhh what? Ok I get it, a parasite has invaded her body, cool. I was expecting something about the size of my fist, but instead we got a giant space booger? I think we need to call the Ghost Busters for that one!

[Arno12]

Can we talk about how cool the section-31 ship looked, I want that ship now.

[Sul-Matuul]

You mean this badass thing!

I've flipped the image as it actually flies into shot upside-down and the camera rotates.
Those nacelles unfolded as well and it had some sort of "cloaking" or mirroring thing going on with the hull too which looked awesome.

Attachment 10129

I recon we might get that in STO, probably as a lockbox ship, perhaps a S31 lockbox?

[Mack]

You mean this badass thing!

I've flipped the image as it actually flies into shot upside-down and the camera rotates.
Those nacelles unfolded as well and it had some sort of "cloaking" or mirroring thing going on with the hull too which looked awesome.

Attachment 10129

I recon we might get that in STO, probably as a lockbox ship, perhaps a S31 lockbox?

It wasn't a cloak but definitely some mirroring technology, since you could still see the ship. I liked how the nacelles retracted - I'm a sucker for such moving parts even though I know they technically don't make sense to have!

The ship itself is, alright. It almost looks like the Engle with the saucer section cut into half?

[Arno12]

I like its cubic design, very stealthy, kinda makes me wonder if they have bigger ships, Section-31 variant of the Constitution? *Drool*

[Sul-Matuul]

It sort of reminds me of the Sabre class, similar sort of shape withe the nacelles joined to the "saucer"

[Rellimie]

I love that the cast and crew do viewing parties of their own show.

Attachment 10130

- - - Updated - - -

Thought, I wonder if the logic extremists are the same as the Vulcan Isolationist Movement from TNG....

[JByb04]

Hold on, you're shifting the burden of proof here, you made the claim that it doesn't appeal to modern viewers, the burden of proof is on you to support such a claim!

But lets look at some review sites for fan opinions, I will be comparing it to The Orville, which does use the old Star Trek formula, just not necessary the same storytelling, as it is a comedy.

Rotten Tomatoes, gives Discovery an average of 51% liked, while The Orville gets 91%. Critics generally like Discovery over The Orville, but they aren't generally fans, and audience numbers make you money, opinions of critics don't.

Metacritic paints a similar picture, Discovery gets 4.6 and 5.3 (season 1 and 2 respectively), while The Orville gets 8.3 and 7.8 on the user score.

We could get a better comparison of things if CBS released all the viewing figures for Discovery.

I wonder how viewership would change if CBS took Discovery from being behind a paywall. That seems to be a drawback to the series itself. Admittedly I dislike paying to watch a show that has always been well "free" but I find the series good enough to warrant paying for it.

That doesn't mean that other individuals would share my sentiments. Some may not be able to afford the expense. But CBS has all but stated that Star Trek is their "cash cow" for All Access. Hence the development for additional Star Trek series that will be exclusive to the service as well.

Just a thought.